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Thread: Graduated voting rights

  1. #21
    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.
    (unknown but attributed to Alexander Fraser Tyler)
    The Constitution placed restrictions on government. Politicians soon found ways to subvert those restrictions...
    People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.--River Tam

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NDS View Post
    The Constitution placed restrictions on government. Politicians soon found ways to subvert those restrictions...
    I have read this quote was attributed to Alexis Toqueville, around 1812?) but, no matter, the point is well-taken and was the basis for my last post. Frankly, I'm convinced we're already there and is one reason I'm not optimistic about the future of this country. Too many "voting illiterates" already cast votes for whoever promises to GIVE them sh#t.

    "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country". Uh-huh...right.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    I have read this quote was attributed to Alexis Toqueville, around 1812?) but, no matter, the point is well-taken and was the basis for my last post. Frankly, I'm convinced we're already there and is one reason I'm not optimistic about the future of this country. Too many "voting illiterates" already cast votes for whoever promises to GIVE them sh#t.

    "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country". Uh-huh...right.

    Too many "voting illiterates" already cast votes for whoever promises to GIVE them sh#t.

    The last election proved this right without a doubt. Now days it is "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what your country will do TO YOU."
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    I have read this quote was attributed to Alexis Toqueville, around 1812?) but, no matter, the point is well-taken and was the basis for my last post. Frankly, I'm convinced we're already there and is one reason I'm not optimistic about the future of this country. Too many "voting illiterates" already cast votes for whoever promises to GIVE them sh#t.

    "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country". Uh-huh...right.
    1+, JJ. The thought that our beloved U.S.A. has seen it's BEST days, is hard to wrap one's mind around. After all, our nation, until the past two or three decades, has been a beacon of hope to the rest of the world...in addition to a country where we've been privileged to enjoy such unparalled individual freedoms. The reality is that every citizen BETTER start acknowledging where the "good ship USA" is being steered...and who is at the helm...and do their best to change its course. Meanwhile, everyone had better get prepared to be completely self-sufficient...without electricity, readily available gasoline/diesel, scarce food supplies, lack of communication and riots in the streets. I truly hope and pray that no one ever has to experience this horrifying scenario. I sure don't want to have to deal with such an unimagineable collapse of our way of life. But, by golly, DH and I are preparing for such an event!

    I may not know what the future holds, but I DO KNOW WHO HOLDS THE FUTURE...my Heavenly Father and Creator of the Universe. When one can honestly say that they've put their complete trust in God, then they know that ALL WILL BE WELL WITH THEIR SOUL and THEIR ETERNITY IS SECURED! When it's all said and done, does anything else really matter?
    Conservative Wife & Mom -- I'm a Conservative Christian-American with dual citizenship...the Kingdom of God is my 1st home and the U.S.A. is my 2nd.

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Marissa View Post
    I understand your propasal in its theoretical sense but I do not think that it is either constitutional or appropriate. This is a free country where "all men are created equal." This does not mean that all men are created equal unless the don't own land, aren't civil servants, ect.

    Also, that would require the government to label us with our "worth" and that is a road that I am not willing to go down.
    Marissa, and the ones with like views:

    Please consider this point before throwing Festus' idea in the trash. From the view of someone that hasn't put a dog in this fight yet, I think what Festus is trying to say is that simple voting should not be an automatic of citizenship. I agree. You should have to have some "skin in the game".

    Your counter to that is admirable, in that you want to protect those that don't own anything, but still give them a voice in political outcomes. It sounds so charitable. The problem is, with all these ideas that sound so magnificent and magnanimous, is that it is wishful thinking. It doesn't pass the "Reality Test". For proof, just look at the generations of folks that are on the public dole. Also look at the generations of folks that have failed to get..NO... failed to even try, to get an education and better themselves. They have no ambition past that of what can be doled out to them, for which they don't have to work. And I'm not talking about JUST welfare recipients. I'm talking about folks that might work a little, but get subsidies in many ways from Gov'T and local charities...have been for a long time, and will for a lot longer.

    I'm sorry, but I don't want those folks having a say in our Country's future, and how we do things today either. It's time for the gravy train to end for that class of citizen.

    As to you view of someone that doesn't have anything, that doesn't mean it has to remain that way. They can get it the same the rest of MOST of us got it...work and savings. That's the point in the whole anti-argument that gets missed in this admirable debate on giving those that don't own anything a vote.

    As for the lady that is quite successful, but doesn't want to buy property, no one is keeping her from voting but herself. If she wants to vote, she must purchase some property. That's a choice she'll have to make for herself. I'm not going to change a good system that would work for one person. Besides, if she is so successful it wouldn't be a stretch for her to do that anyway, and it would help the economy too. But, if she is sitting on $2 million of stocks and bonds, in my book, she owns property. She owns parts of different companies and cities, who issue bonds. It doesn't just have to be land. However, the VALUE of the "Property" needs to be indexed. A welfare person could buy one share of a penny stock and claim "ownership, when they spend more than that on a video game.

    I saw a quote the other day that might be applicable in the case of those that oppose Festus" views.

    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out."

  7. #26
    democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

    +1. Whoever said it, he was right on.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. #27
    The Founding Fathers knew the descendants of self-reliant Americans would turn toward self-indulgence and destroy the Constitutional Republic they had created. That's why so many free people have agreed with:
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
    Thomas Jefferson
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

    +1. Whoever said it, he was right on.
    People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.--River Tam

  9. #28
    Join Date
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    Exclamation The purpose of this execise...

    the purpose of his exercise is to bring about debate. Graduated voting is only a theory.
    It assigned a point value to each vote cast with five being the most an d one being the least.

    Gov 5 thank you for understanding the point and not being judgmental. Marissa I see your point as well.

    Here is some more fodder.

    Right now not all men are created equal.

    Some of us really work hard for everything we have. Others sit on the couch and smoke dope waiting for the next welfare check to role in and hoping the needle exchange program has free methadone this month.
    I resent the hell out of the fact that I help support people who by the very nature of their existence don't give a rat's tail that they are supporting felony drug trafficking, human trafficking, and refuse to work for what they have.

    You see I am an ant by nature. Those on welfare are grasshoppers. I don't mind winter because I have prepared for it. They are gonna suffer sooner or later.

    I do not mind welfare for the disabled. I do not mind WIC for small children. I do not mind helping those who are trying.

    I had to take a pee test to get and maintain my current position. I think welfare recipients should have to take a pee test to get a check. If they don't pass...THEY DON"T GET PAID.

    Where is the equality in that? I work and support my family. I want them to work too.

    I love my country and served it honorably for more than 20 years. I want them to love it too.

    I think that those who make the money should make the decisions about how the money they made is spent. Anything less than that is theft plain and simple.

    You don't ask a poor person about money management. They usually don't have the capacity to understand what it takes to be successful.

    You don't ask a starving person where to get a good meal. They do not have the capacity to take care of it themselves.

    Why are we asking people who refuse to work, have little or no desire to learn to make a wise choice about what it takes to make money and how best to utilize it for the best interests of the country. You see they are making choices based on what they want right now. Not on what will help them further down the road.

    I honestly believe that there has got to be a better way.

    Where is the equality in those that work versus those that do not?
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  10. #29
    Some very good points festus. Thanks.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk4u View Post
    too many "voting illiterates" already cast votes for whoever promises to give them sh#t.
    viva mexico!
    Americas Epitaph
    "Since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done"

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