House Democrats Close to Reinstituting Penalties for Criticizing Congress - Page 2
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Thread: House Democrats Close to Reinstituting Penalties for Criticizing Congress

  1. #11
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post
    If reality is as the above post states, I will NOT renew my membership in the NRA and I"ll let 'em know why. And once I'm gone, I'm not coming back.

    Damn it, is there NO integrity left, anywhere, in the political class in this country?

    I'm getting closer and closer to just retreating to the compound and locking the gate.
    I feel your pain. I think the same way. I'm an NRA member because I thought they were the last bastian of hope for some of us GOA's, maybe I was mistaken. I feel like backing into a dark hole somewhere and making any SOB that comes in eat lead the whole way!

  2.   
  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    I feel your pain. I think the same way. I'm an NRA member because I thought they were the last bastian of hope for some of us GOA's, maybe I was mistaken. I feel like backing into a dark hole somewhere and making any SOB that comes in eat lead the whole way!
    The NRA Supported the National Firearms Act of 1934, In fact, they've supported gun rights infringements "since...1871." ...
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/polit...amendment.html

    Gun Owners Of America - The Only No-Compromise Gun Lobby In Washington:
    Gun Owners of America

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gray Court, SC
    Posts
    2,934
    Sometimes I wonder about the GOA.

    NRA-ILA :: Statement From The National Rifle Association On H.R. 5175, The Disclose Act

    Statement From The National Rifle Association On H.R. 5175, The Disclose Act

    Thursday, June 17, 2010

    We appreciate the concerns that some NRA members have raised regarding our position on H.R. 5175, the "DISCLOSE Act." Unfortunately, critics of our position have misstated or misunderstood the facts.

    We have never said we would support any version of this bill. To the contrary, we clearly stated NRA's strong opposition to the DISCLOSE Act (as introduced) in a letter sent to Members of Congress on May 26 (click here to read the letter).

    Through the courts and in Congress, the NRA has consistently and strongly opposed any effort to restrict the rights of our four million members to speak and have their voices heard on behalf of gun owners nationwide. H.R. 5175 would put a gag order on the NRA during elections and threaten our members' freedom of association, by forcing us to turn our donor lists over to the federal government. We would also be forced to list our top donors on all election-related television, radio and Internet ads and mailings—even mailings to our own members. We refuse to let this Congress impose those unconstitutional restrictions on our Association.

    The NRA provides critical firearms training for our Armed Forces and law enforcement throughout the country. This bill would force us to choose between training our men and women in uniform and exercising our right to free political speech. We refuse to let this Congress force us to make that choice.

    We didn't "sell out" to Nancy Pelosi or anyone else. We told Congress we opposed the bill. As a result, congressional leaders announced they would exempt us from its draconian restrictions on free speech. If that happens, we will not be involved in the final House debate. If it doesn't, we will continue to strongly oppose the bill.

    Our position is based on principle and experience. During consideration of the previous campaign finance legislation passed in 2002, congressional leadership repeatedly refused to exempt the NRA from its provisions, promising that our concerns would be fixed somewhere down the line. That didn't happen; instead, the NRA had to live under those restrictions for seven years and spend millions of dollars on compliance costs and on legal fees to challenge the law. We will not go down that road again when we have an opportunity to protect our ability to speak.

    There are those who say the NRA should put the Second Amendment at risk over a First Amendment principle. That's easy to say unless you have a sworn duty to protect the Second Amendment above all else, as we do.

    The NRA is a bipartisan, single-issue organization made up of millions of individual members dedicated to the protection of the Second Amendment. We do not represent the interests of other organizations. That's their responsibility. Our responsibility is to protect and defend the interests of our members. And that we do without apology.




    Copyright 2010, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
    This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
    11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030 800-392-8683
    Contact Us | Privacy & Security Policy
    NRA-ILA letter to Congress members

    NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox's Letter to Members of Congress on H.R. 5175, the Disclose Act

    Thursday, June 10, 2010


    http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DiscloseAct52710.pdf

    May 26, 2010



    Dear Member of Congress:



    I am writing to express the National Rifle Association's strong concerns with H.R. 5175, the DISCLOSE Act, as well as our opposition to this bill in its current form. It is our sincere hope that these concerns will be addressed as this legislation is considered by the full House.



    Earlier this year, in Citizens United v. FEC, the Supreme Court struck down the ban on certain political speech by nonprofit membership associations such as the NRA. In an attempt to characterize that ruling as something other than a vindication of the free speech and associational rights of millions of individual American citizens, H.R. 5175 attempts to reverse that decision.



    Under the First Amendment, as recognized in a long line of Supreme Court cases, citizens have the right to speak and associate privately and anonymously. H.R. 5175, however, would require the NRA to turn our membership and donor lists over to the government and to disclose top donors on political advertisements. The bill would empower the Federal Election Commission to require the NRA to reveal private, internal discussions with our four million members about political communications. This unnecessary and burdensome requirement would leave it in the hands of government officials to make a determination about the type and amount of speech that would trigger potential criminal penalties.



    H.R. 5175 creates a series of byzantine disclosure requirements that have the obvious effect of intimidating speech. The bill, for example, requires "top-five funder" disclosures on TV ads that mention candidates for federal office from 90 days prior to a primary election through the general election; "top-two funder" disclosure on similar radio ads during that period; "significant funder" and "top-five funder" disclosures on similar mass mailings during that period; and "significant funder" disclosure for similar "robocalls" during that period. Internet communications are covered if placed for a fee on another website, such as the use of banner ads that mention candidates for federal office. Even worse, no exceptions are included for organizations communicating with their members. This is far worse than current law and would severely restrict the various ways that the NRA communicates with our members and like-minded individuals.



    While there are some groups that have run ads and attempted to hide their identities, the NRA isn't one of them. The NRA has been in existence since 1871. Our four million members across the country contribute for the purpose of speaking during elections and participating in the political process. When the NRA runs ads, we clearly and proudly put our name on them. Indeed, that's what our members expect us to do. There is no reason to include the NRA in overly burdensome disclosure and reporting requirements that are supposedly aimed at so-called "shadow" groups.



    On the issue of reporting requirements, the bill mandates that the NRA electronically file all reports with the FEC within 24 hours of each expenditure. Within 24 hours of FEC posting of the reports, the NRA would be required to put a hyperlink on our website to the exact page on which the reports appear on the FEC's website - and keep that link: active for at least one year following the date of the general election. Independent Expenditure reports would have to disclose all individuals who donate $600 or more to the NRA during the reporting period and Electioneering Communication reports would have to disclose all individuals who donate $1,000 or more to the NRA during the reporting period. There are literally thousands of NRA donors who would meet those thresholds, so these requirements would create a significant and unwarranted burden.



    Some have argued that under the bill, all the NRA would have to do to avoid disclosing our $600 or $1,000 level donors is to create a "Campaign-Related Activity Account." Were we to set up such an account, however, we would be precluded from transferring more than $10,000 from our general treasury to the account; all individual donors to that account would have to specifically designate their contributions in that manner and would have to limit their contributions to $9,999; the burdensome disclosure requirements for ads, mailings and robocalls would still apply; and the NRA would be prohibited from spending money on election activity from any other source - including the NRA's Political Victory Fund (our PAC). In sum, this provision is completely unworkable.



    Unfortunately, H.R. 5175 attacks nearly all of the NRA's political speech by creating an arbitrary patchwork of unprecedented reporting and disclosure requirements. Under the bill, the NRA would have to track the political priorities of each of our individual members - all four million of them. The cost of complying with these requirements would be immense and significantly restrict our ability to speak.



    As noted above, there is no legitimate reason to include the NRA in H.R. 5175's overly burdensome disclosure and reporting requirements. Therefore, we will continue to work with members from both parties to address these issues. Should our concerns not be resolved - and to date, they have not been - the NRA will have no choice but to oppose passage of this legislation.



    Sincerely,



    Chris W. Cox

    Executive Director





    Copyright 2010, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
    This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
    11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030 800-392-8683
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hat View Post
    Sometimes I wonder about the GOA.

    NRA-ILA :: Statement From The National Rifle Association On H.R. 5175, The Disclose Act



    NRA-ILA letter to Congress members
    I don't trust the NRA as far as I can throw them...

    ... congressional leaders announced they would exempt us from its draconian restrictions on free speech. If that happens, we will not be involved in the final House debate. If it doesn't, we will continue to strongly oppose the bill. - NRA Statement June 17th, 2010 ...

    “[T]he NRA -- on whose board of directors I serve -- rather than holding steadfastly to its historic principles of defending the Constitution and continuing its noble fight against government regulation of political speech instead opted for a political deal borne of self-interest in exchange for ‘neutrality’ from the legislation's requirements.”

    -- NRA Director Cleta Mitchell, June 17, 2010

    Source:
    washingtonpost.com


    The NRA Supported the National Firearms Act of 1934, In fact, they've supported gun rights infringements "since...1871." ...
    The NRA Continues To Compromise On The Second Amendment

    Gun Owners Of America - The Only No-Compromise Gun Lobby In Washington:
    Gun Owners of America

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  6. #15

    We have been sold out !!!

    from Ellen Miller <[email protected]>
    [email protected]
    ...
    dateThu, Jun 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM
    subject: Success!
    mailed-bybounce.bluestatedigital.com
    3:30 PM (10 minutes ago)

    Thank you so much for your support, friends.
    We wrote you earlier today about the need to pass the DISCLOSE Act, and you responded immediately -- making hundreds of calls to Congress from across the country.
    In turn, Congress just responded to you by passing the bill in the House of Representatives!
    It was a close vote, and our collective voice made a big difference. Now we've got a tough battle ahead for the DISCLOSE Act and the Earmark Transparency Act in the U.S. Senate.
    We need to demonstrate that people across the country care about an open, transparent government which makes all its public information available online and in real-time. Join the Public = Online Campaign to demand transparency by signing our pledge, and please ask your friends to do the same:
    Public Equals Online - Public Equals Online
    When we started the Sunlight Foundation in order to make government more transparent and accountable, we knew we couldn't get there all at once. Today, we took one of the necessary steps forward, and together, we'll keep taking more.
    To be clear, neither the DISCLOSE Act nor other legislation we'll seek to pass is perfect, but we are swiftly moving ahead, and today, we have a victory for more disclosure of influence in our government that we can hang our hat on.
    Thank you once again to everyone for all your support in this process. We'll be in touch again soon as we continue to push on the DISCLOSE Act and the Earmark Transparency Act.
    In the meantime, take a moment to appreciate that we're one step closer to online, real-time disclosure in our campaigns. It's very cool.
    Ellen

    WE HAVE TO STOP THIS IN THE SENATE !!!

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  7. #16

    GOA Disclose Act Action Alert - Contact Your Two U.S. Senators...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
    from Ellen Miller <[email protected]>
    [email protected]
    ...
    dateThu, Jun 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM
    subject: Success!
    mailed-bybounce.bluestatedigital.com
    3:30 PM (10 minutes ago)

    Thank you so much for your support, friends.
    We wrote you earlier today about the need to pass the DISCLOSE Act, and you responded immediately -- making hundreds of calls to Congress from across the country.
    In turn, Congress just responded to you by passing the bill in the House of Representatives!
    It was a close vote, and our collective voice made a big difference. Now we've got a tough battle ahead for the DISCLOSE Act and the Earmark Transparency Act in the U.S. Senate.
    We need to demonstrate that people across the country care about an open, transparent government which makes all its public information available online and in real-time. Join the Public = Online Campaign to demand transparency by signing our pledge, and please ask your friends to do the same:
    Public Equals Online - Public Equals Online
    When we started the Sunlight Foundation in order to make government more transparent and accountable, we knew we couldn't get there all at once. Today, we took one of the necessary steps forward, and together, we'll keep taking more.
    To be clear, neither the DISCLOSE Act nor other legislation we'll seek to pass is perfect, but we are swiftly moving ahead, and today, we have a victory for more disclosure of influence in our government that we can hang our hat on.
    Thank you once again to everyone for all your support in this process. We'll be in touch again soon as we continue to push on the DISCLOSE Act and the Earmark Transparency Act.
    In the meantime, take a moment to appreciate that we're one step closer to online, real-time disclosure in our campaigns. It's very cool.
    Ellen

    WE HAVE TO STOP THIS IN THE SENATE !!!
    House Narrowly Passes Gag Order (DISCLOSE) Act
    -- Now it's time to barrage the Senate

    Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
    8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
    Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
    http://gunowners.org


    "Now the NRA are the big defenders of the Second Amendment of the Constitution, the right to bear arms. But yet they think it's all right to throw everybody else under the table so they can get a special deal, while requiring everyone else to comply with all the rules outlined in this bill, and frankly, I think it's disappointing." -- House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), June 24, 2010
    Friday, June 25, 2010

    Well, if there were any doubt as to what greased the skids for the DISCLOSE Act's final passage... the quote above hits the nail on the head.

    Speaking on the House floor, Rep. Boehner blasted the horse-trading that occurred behind the scenes -- noting that certain groups were made exempt from the legislation in order to convince them to drop their opposition to H.R. 5175.

    Republican Dan Lungren of California called it an "auction behind closed doors." Some groups won, Lungren said, others lost.

    Rep. Gregg Harper (R-MS) vilified the bill because of its ambiguity. He said that since the Federal Election Commission won't issue regulations to implement the bill before the election, people will have to guess at what the new election law is. That's because the government won't be able to tell people what the law actually is... and if you guess wrong, you go to jail or get prosecuted.

    Harper tagged liberals for trying to rush this bill (with all of its ambiguities) for immediate implementation so that Democrats can gag their opponents in the upcoming election. Why else, Harper asked, won't Pelosi and company delay the implementation of the bill until the 2012 elections?

    Another irony with the whole process surrounding this legislation is that while the bill is called the DISCLOSE Act, liberal Democrats did not reveal (until a couple of hours before the Rules Committee Vote) that an amendment had been inserted at the last minute to exempt labor unions from the requirements of the bill. By the way, many of these requirements would make it much more difficult for GOA to hold legislators accountable during an election year.

    The DISCLOSE Act (H.R. 5175) passed narrowly by a 219-206 vote. You can see how your Representative voted by going to: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll391.xml

    GOA thanks all its activists for their hard work on this bill. Don't be discouraged, it is MUCH harder for us to kill legislation in that chamber. The fact that we came so close -- only 7 votes needed to switch -- means that we probably have the muscle to kill this in the Senate!

    ACTION: Please urge your Senator to oppose the Disclose Act (H.R. 5175 and S. 3295). You can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the pre-written e-mail message below.

    ----- Pre-written letter -----

    Dear Senator:

    I stand with Gun Owners of America in opposing the DISCLOSE Act (H.R. 5175 and S. 3295).

    It is outrageous that the House of Representatives passed this legislation with a deal to exempt certain large organizations from the terms of the DISCLOSE Act. This smacks of the money-for-votes fiasco which helped grease the skids for passage of ObamaCare and which has already lowered Congress' reputation to unprecedented depths.

    I was glad to see that Senator Mitch McConnell blasted this deal, which was especially aimed at carving out special exemptions for the NRA leadership in exchange for their promise to sit on their hands and not oppose the DISCLOSE Act. "If there is one thing Americans loathe about Washington, it's the backroom dealing to win the vote of organizations with power and influence at the expense of everyone else," McConnell said.

    "Just as it wasn't the Democrats' money to offer in the health care debate, free speech isn't theirs to ration out to those willing to play ball -- it's a right guaranteed by our First Amendment to all Americans."

    I agree wholeheartedly. Please do NOT vote in favor of this legislation, as it will have a chilling effect upon our free speech rights by forcing the organizations we associate with to disclose their membership lists.

    How ironic that a Congress and President who treat transparency with contempt should now be trying to force legal organizations to disclose the names of their law-abiding members. The hypocrisy is blatant, to say the least.

    Vote no on H.R. 5175 or S. 3295.

    Sincerely,
    your name here

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    MA, Away from the liberal loonies...
    Posts
    2,658
    ---- AYES 219 --- Neal (MA)

    This P.O.S. has pissed me off too many times!!! I will make it my sworn duty to see he is removed from office!!! (by legal means, as I'm sure this thread is being monitored)...

    I spoke to Tom Wesley on the phone last night. He is running to unseat congressman Neal in my district. I sent him a message through his website and he decided to call me back to discuss my questions and concerns further! I was delighted to speak with him. His campaign headquarters is just down the road from my home.

    Home | Tom Wesley for United States Congress

    Now I'll be sending messages to senator Brown. I'll send a message to senator Kerry, but I doubt it will make any difference with his vote. He's another P.O.S. that needs to be replaced.

    Thanks Bohemian...

    Peace...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  9. #18
    wolfhunter Guest
    I sent emails to Florida's dyed in the wool Dem, and our Left-of-Schwarzenegger RINO. We'll see how they vote.

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina/Charleston
    Posts
    2,388
    I may not be "political opposition" but I am opposition to every damn dem and the piece of garbage in the whitehouse. They can all go to hell as far as I am concerned and if they decide that they do not like my rhetoric, let them come by my house and tell me so. If they enter my home uninvited they will truly find out how much I despise every damn one of them including their moslem socialist/fascist dictator wannabe leader.I am willing to age 2 years just so I could vote down this piece of garbage in 2012.

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Creswell, Oregon
    Posts
    3,865
    HR 5175 is unconstitutional, we would not be talking about this if our elected officials stuck to the oath they took when they were sworn into office. Libs will never win a fair debate. That's why they have to silence any opposition.
    "You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who gets the credit" - Ronald Reagan

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