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  1. #31
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    Restraint has to be the mitigating factor here. In AZ it is LEGAL to carry in a bar...not so sure how SMART it is for the average bar fly.

    I go to a bar in my town pretty regularly, but I don't drink. It's not a moral or religious stand against drinking...I just decided back in my 20's that drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, and stopped. The bar I go to however has the BEST old fashioned burgers and basket of O-rings on the planet. Do I carry in there? Yep...but my beverage of choice is Diet Pepsi.

    Alcohol + Stupid Man Pride = Bad Things A'gonna Happen...maybe not now, but sooner or later...like the turd who advocated shooting someone for punching him. Can you imagine adding alcohol to THAT mix?

    HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....."I have had three beers, though I feel fine (though my ability to judge just how fine I actually am has been affected by the amount of alcohol I have consumed). OH NO HE DI'ENT! He just said I was (insert insult here...short...little peepee...talked on my momma)! Lemme cuss him real good. OH NO! He punched me! I can't just take the punch, I have to show him and this honky tonk tatted up tramp I am trying to impress what a MAN'S MAN I am...."

    BANG BANG BANG "DAMN...I missed (you know...because my fine motor skills have gone out the window in direct proportion the the amount of alcohol I have consumed THOUGH I DON'T REALIZE IT)!

    Girl who was throwing darts in now dead on the floor with a bullet through her lungs. Jukebox has been double tapped, and YOUR DUMB ASS is now going to prison, OR everyone in the hayshaker bar you decided to go into is stomping you into the sawdust on the floor becasue you packed your heater into a bar WHERE YOU CHOSE TO DRINK ALCOHOL and let your little man pride get pricked and had a pissing contest with a loud mouth who MAY have deserved a punch in the nose, but not getting gunned down.

    I am a little passionate about this BECAUSE I WAS THE RESPONDING OFFICER IN AN INCIDENT JUST LIKE THIS where a 22 year old girl lost her life because some turd was packing WHILE "Just having a few beers".

    If you are man enough to go into a bar and NOT drink alcohol...even one beer...fine, no need to disarm. You MAY have to shoot the aforementioned turd I spoke of.

    HOWEVER....if you plan on consuming alcohol..be the BETTER, SMARTER man...and leave it in the car. If you and some other loudmouth swap punches...get it done, have a beer together...CALL A CAB to go home and that's the end of it. A much happier ending, and some schmuck like me doesn't have to end my shift knocking on a door and telling someone's parent's or husband....."I am so sorry to wake you at this hour, but It is my duty to inform you that_______________ has been shot and killed...."

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman1911 View Post
    Restraint has to be the mitigating factor here. In AZ it is LEGAL to carry in a bar...not so sure how SMART it is for the average bar fly.

    I go to a bar in my town pretty regularly, but I don't drink. It's not a moral or religious stand against drinking...I just decided back in my 20's that drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, and stopped. The bar I go to however has the BEST old fashioned burgers and basket of O-rings on the planet. Do I carry in there? Yep...but my beverage of choice is Diet Pepsi.

    Alcohol + Stupid Man Pride = Bad Things A'gonna Happen...maybe not now, but sooner or later...like the turd who advocated shooting someone for punching him. Can you imagine adding alcohol to THAT mix?

    HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....."I have had three beers, though I feel fine (though my ability to judge just how fine I actually am has been affected by the amount of alcohol I have consumed). OH NO HE DI'ENT! He just said I was (insert insult here...short...little peepee...talked on my momma)! Lemme cuss him real good. OH NO! He punched me! I can't just take the punch, I have to show him and this honky tonk tatted up tramp I am trying to impress what a MAN'S MAN I am...."

    BANG BANG BANG "DAMN...I missed (you know...because my fine motor skills have gone out the window in direct proportion the the amount of alcohol I have consumed THOUGH I DON'T REALIZE IT)!

    Girl who was throwing darts in now dead on the floor with a bullet through her lungs. Jukebox has been double tapped, and YOUR DUMB ASS is now going to prison, OR everyone in the hayshaker bar you decided to go into is stomping you into the sawdust on the floor becasue you packed your heater into a bar WHERE YOU CHOSE TO DRINK ALCOHOL and let your little man pride get pricked and had a pissing contest with a loud mouth who MAY have deserved a punch in the nose, but not getting gunned down.

    I am a little passionate about this BECAUSE I WAS THE RESPONDING OFFICER IN AN INCIDENT JUST LIKE THIS where a 22 year old girl lost her life because some turd was packing WHILE "Just having a few beers".

    If you are man enough to go into a bar and NOT drink alcohol...even one beer...fine, no need to disarm. You MAY have to shoot the aforementioned turd I spoke of.

    HOWEVER....if you plan on consuming alcohol..be the BETTER, SMARTER man...and leave it in the car. If you and some other loudmouth swap punches...get it done, have a beer together...CALL A CAB to go home and that's the end of it. A much happier ending, and some schmuck like me doesn't have to end my shift knocking on a door and telling someone's parent's or husband....."I am so sorry to wake you at this hour, but It is my duty to inform you that_______________ has been shot and killed...."
    While I could personally say that I could be completely smashed and still not pull my firearm on someone for just a punch, I value human life more than my own pride and its deeply ingrained in my psyche. However, many do not. I completely agree, drinking and firearms don't mix
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman1911 View Post
    Restraint has to be the mitigating factor here. In AZ it is LEGAL to carry in a bar...not so sure how SMART it is for the average bar fly.

    I go to a bar in my town pretty regularly, but I don't drink. It's not a moral or religious stand against drinking...I just decided back in my 20's that drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, and stopped. The bar I go to however has the BEST old fashioned burgers and basket of O-rings on the planet. Do I carry in there? Yep...but my beverage of choice is Diet Pepsi.

    Alcohol + Stupid Man Pride = Bad Things A'gonna Happen...maybe not now, but sooner or later...like the turd who advocated shooting someone for punching him. Can you imagine adding alcohol to THAT mix?

    HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....."I have had three beers, though I feel fine (though my ability to judge just how fine I actually am has been affected by the amount of alcohol I have consumed). OH NO HE DI'ENT! He just said I was (insert insult here...short...little peepee...talked on my momma)! Lemme cuss him real good. OH NO! He punched me! I can't just take the punch, I have to show him and this honky tonk tatted up tramp I am trying to impress what a MAN'S MAN I am...."

    BANG BANG BANG "DAMN...I missed (you know...because my fine motor skills have gone out the window in direct proportion the the amount of alcohol I have consumed THOUGH I DON'T REALIZE IT)!

    Girl who was throwing darts in now dead on the floor with a bullet through her lungs. Jukebox has been double tapped, and YOUR DUMB ASS is now going to prison, OR everyone in the hayshaker bar you decided to go into is stomping you into the sawdust on the floor becasue you packed your heater into a bar WHERE YOU CHOSE TO DRINK ALCOHOL and let your little man pride get pricked and had a pissing contest with a loud mouth who MAY have deserved a punch in the nose, but not getting gunned down.

    I am a little passionate about this BECAUSE I WAS THE RESPONDING OFFICER IN AN INCIDENT JUST LIKE THIS where a 22 year old girl lost her life because some turd was packing WHILE "Just having a few beers".

    If you are man enough to go into a bar and NOT drink alcohol...even one beer...fine, no need to disarm. You MAY have to shoot the aforementioned turd I spoke of.

    HOWEVER....if you plan on consuming alcohol..be the BETTER, SMARTER man...and leave it in the car. If you and some other loudmouth swap punches...get it done, have a beer together...CALL A CAB to go home and that's the end of it. A much happier ending, and some schmuck like me doesn't have to end my shift knocking on a door and telling someone's parent's or husband....."I am so sorry to wake you at this hour, but It is my duty to inform you that_______________ has been shot and killed...."
    2nd Amendment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It does not say "unless","Except" or "If".
    Ed
    "The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

  5. #34
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    How many THOUSANDS more deaths are there from drunk driving verses alcohol-related gun deaths????

    Maybe the law makers should outlaw car keys in bars instead of firearms..........

    I know, lets petition them to remove ALL parking lots at bars too....... for the "Children"

    If it only saves one life......

    Snowman1911. please tell us, how many more times have you had to inform loved ones of the death of someone because of drunk driving verses alcohol-related gun deaths? Probably in the ratio of hundreds to one...........

    All deaths are tragic..... yet what is more tragic is disarming someone who was then killed, who might have been able to defend themselves if you LEFT THEM THE HECK ALONE and didnt infringe on that which SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED....

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edsworld View Post
    2nd Amendment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It does not say "unless","Except" or "If".
    Dude...Forrest Gump must be your smarter cousin. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's the SMART choice.

    If you want to...you CAN cut your own wrists. It doesn't follow that it's the SMART thing to do.

    I have met YOU a million times. Maybe not in your DNA frame, but I have met carbon copies of you.

    Carrying a gun is a RIGHT. The Second Ammendment is not open to debate. The right to "Keep and bear arms." Literally means.."THE RIGHT TO OWN AND CARRY WEAPONS". I am not going to debate that. What I am SAYING simply...it is DUMB to carry a gun into a bar and consume alcohol.

    You may be the very model of restraint and good judgement. You very well may be the yardstick by which perfect public behavior is measured. However...when you add one or two, or three beers...you know...the limit at which the law says you CAN'T drive a vehicle...you may turn into a jerk with IMPAIRED judgement. A slight that when sober might just be ignored now turns into a life and death ordeal BECAUSE YOUR are NOT in your proper frame of mind.

    Honestly, from reading your posts...I don't think YOUR right mind is all that right. As I previously mentioned...I don't get a warm and fuzzy from you. You preach Second Ammendment, and that's not even the issue here...but you agreed with the poster who advocated shooting someone for a punch, so that tells me volumes about you.

    You have the RIGHT to have unprotected sex with someone with HIV...but is that the SMART thing to do?

    As I said...I have no issue with carrying a gun into a bar...IF you aren't consuming alcohol. That's the act of a REASONABLE person. YOU would then be in FULL CONTROL of your faculties and actions, and the chances of a tragedy such as outlined above would MOST PROBABLY be avoided. The smart and reasonable man avoids trouble when he can, and acts prudently in ALL cases. As a cop it was my JOB to risk my butt in situations where I as a civilian have the choice not to risk my butt if I don't have to.

    If a drunk gets mouthy...whatever...it causes me no pain, injury, or damage to my pride. They guy's a jerk, and the nice thing about that is a jerk can't remain a secret for long...sooner or later (usually sooner) people will recognize him for the jerk that he is. If that jerk puts a hand on me or someone I care about..I own him. Without ever resorting to my gun, I will make him regret getting out of bed that day. I know...I have seen me do it. But I will do it with a clear head and NO IMPAIRED JUDGEMENT that a prosecutor can use against ME to show I was negligent in my actions, and that a jury could and probably WOULD not see my actions as those of a reasonable person, but the actions of a drunk loud mouth who bought into the other drunk's trip.

    "REASONABLE" That is the operative word. What would a REASONABLE person do in thus and so situation?

    It is the same as when I pilot my small plane...responsible pilots have a motto: "12 hours between bottle and throttle"

    Some years ago I went hunting with a brother officer. Good guy. A cop I would (and have) go through doors with serving felony warrants on violent subjects. We get to the cabin in northern Arizona. He breaks out a bottle of fine old Kentucky Bourbon. We have a shot and crash. The following morning as we are gearing up for our hunt...he fills a PINT flask and sticks it into his hunting vest.

    "Dude, what're you doing?" I ask.

    "I like a snort to keep the chill off while I am out there."

    "How many snorts do you need?"

    "Oh, I'll refill it when I come back here for lunch." (In case you are weak on weights and measures...two pints equal a QUART of alcohol...which is MORE than a fifth of 80-proof alcohol in less than a day.)

    "Ah..okay. Well, have fun with that. I am going to hunt the south ridge. Later." The south ridge was a six mile drive from the area where he'd be hunt-drinkin.

    Years later he still asks me why I don't invite him to hunt with us anymore.

    NOT FREAKIN' SMART.

    Why risk your life, freedom, right to own a gun, and the respect of virtually everyone, because your ego and sense of self is so tied to the man you think you are when you are carrying a gun? Carrying a gun is a right...yes, absolutely...but it is also a very heavy responsibility. Don't abuse it and lose it. Be smart Forrest.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    How many THOUSANDS more deaths are there from drunk driving verses alcohol-related gun deaths????

    Maybe the law makers should outlaw car keys in bars instead of firearms..........

    I know, lets petition them to remove ALL parking lots at bars too....... for the "Children"

    If it only saves one life......

    Snowman1911. please tell us, how many more times have you had to inform loved ones of the death of someone because of drunk driving verses alcohol-related gun deaths? Probably in the ratio of hundreds to one...........

    All deaths are tragic..... yet what is more tragic is disarming someone who was then killed, who might have been able to defend themselves if you LEFT THEM THE HECK ALONE and didnt infringe on that which SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED....
    Whether it is once or one thousand times...a young girl died because SOMEONE was stupid. That was too many. So let me also mention the THIRTEEN year old boy who was killed at a family BBQ in South Phoenix a few years ago because his Uncle Chuy got loaded on "a few Bud Lites" and started playing with his new 9mm. The kid was playing basketball when the round from Tio Chuy's pistol transited his neck and blew out his carotid artery. He bled out before paramedics arrived on scene. Tio Chuy certainly wasn't being attacked...he was being DRUNK AND STUPID. If he'd just left his pistol in his truck and let Tia Whatever Her Name was drive home...the thirteen year old VICTIM would still be alive and maybe even have a family of his own. So don't argue statistics to me. I have seen the blood on the floor from "statistics" who would still be alive if some DUMBASS hadn't got drink and played with his gun, or got loaded and decided that someone who said something about his Momma needed to DIE becasue of it. Better yet..if Uncle Chuy would have carried his gun and stayed on Coca Cola...he probably would have left his gun IN IT'S HOLSTER because he wouldn't have BEEN drunk and stupid in the first place.

    And if you read my post...you will see I mentioned REPEATEDLY...it IS your RIGHT to carry your gun. In NO PART did I say that was less than 100% true. Not ONCE did I say that your right should be INFRINGED upon in the slightest. My ONLY point is and has been that a SMART MAN/WOMAN wouldn't CONSUME alcohol while carrying their gun.

    For crying out loud I carry MY gun while I am in the local watering hole having a burger and a DIET PEPSI. I just flat DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL while I am armed. I certainly don't say that I am better than anyone else, and that only I should have my gun in a bar...I am only saying that if you're packing your roscoe, leave the who-hit-john alone.

    What don't you get? That it is DUMB to drink and carry a gun? Maybe it is just dumb for YOU to carry a gun, or drive, or type on an internet forum...but hey...that's your RIGHT.

    How will you feel if someone like me has to come to YOUR door and say "Mr________, I regret to have to inform you that your (iinsert loved one here) has been shot and expired at the emergency room. They were playing pool at Location X and a fight broke out between two men who were intoxicated, and the initial information we have is that....." Will that just be a statistic to you?

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman1911 View Post

    What don't you get? That it is DUMB to drink and carry a gun? Maybe it is just dumb for YOU to carry a gun, or drive, or type on an internet forum...but hey...that's your RIGHT.

    No, you dont get "it".....

    Just because YOU, Mr High and Mighty..Know-it-all and everyone else is an idiot for doing it different than you........ (and the same goes for those infringing lawmakers)

    YOU dont get to chose how others get to exercise their rights just because YOU think if they do it that way they are being stupid, period, end of story.......

    If you dont like how they exercise their rights, then just leave, like you said you did with your ex hunting buddy. No need to call them stupid.........(even if they are)

  9. #38
    The original issue, I thought, was about carrying into a bar. The consensus seemed to be that it would be OK since many people may go to bars but not drink. So far, so good. Now, the argument seems to be about drinking and carrying. I'm not sure how anyone can make a case that alcohol and guns mix cause they sure as hell do not.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    No, you dont get "it".....

    Just because YOU, Mr High and Mighty..Know-it-all and everyone else is an idiot for doing it different than you........ (and the same goes for those infringing lawmakers)

    YOU dont get to chose how others get to exercise their rights just because YOU think if they do it that way they are being stupid, period, end of story.......

    If you dont like how they exercise their rights, then just leave, like you said you did with your ex hunting buddy. No need to call them stupid.........(even if they are)
    There you go with that INFRIGING again. "Infringement" is legally prohibiting, NOT THE EXCERCISE OF COMMON SENSE AND GOOD JUDGEMENT ON THE PART OF THE INDIVIDUAL. It's about common sense. Allow me to repeat myself...I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CARRY YOU GUN. I just happen to think that CARRYING A GUN WHILE CONSUMING ALCOHOL IS THE ACT OF A COMPLETE IDIOT WITH NO REGARD FOR THE SAFETY OF HIMSELF OR THOSE AROUND HIM.

    I am nowhere near high and mighty or a know-it-all...but clearly I am a know-more-than-some-dummy-drunk-with-a-gun. I mean do you advocate slapping your wife and playing with electrical sockets after a shower too? Send your kids out to ride their tricycles on a freeway? Go skydiving without a parachute?

    Let me boil this down to a couple of very simple questions that even you MIGHT be able to answer IF you are honest with yourself.

    Here goes....are you ready? Got your thinking cap on?

    "Are you fully capable of making completely sound judgements while intoxicated?"

    "Have you EVER done anything while intoxicated that a reasonable person would regret later?

    "Have you EVER engaged in a fistfight over something stupid and thought MAN, I'D LIKE TO KILL THAT SOB?"

    How would YOU feel about drinking and packing if someone YOU love got killed by a nitwit who was loaded and packing?

    Or....am I right on the button here in my assessment that YOU are one of those armchair commandos who think that your gun makes you a tough guy and you are JUST WAITING with a stiffy to get a chance to blast someone who crosses you, and by golly will you be a hero in your own eyes.

    Are you THAT GUY...you know the one who hangs around convenience stores in bad neighborhoods just PRAYING someone will come in and try to rob the place so you can be the hero and gun 'em down?

    I have seen THAT GUY. I have dealt with THAT GUY more than once. THAT guy is the one who hangs around cops, and buys himself a CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT badge, and maybe gets himself a hat that has POLICE or SHERIFF printed on it and open-carries just so people might THINK he's a cop. You know...THAT GUY...who would LOVE to be a cop, but didn't have the drive, or the guts, or the ability to actually EARN YOUR BADGE. You know...THAT GUY...the one we laugh at. The ones of us who EARNED our shields or stars, and did a hell of a tough job and did it the best way we knew how. The ones of us who have been there and still wake up in a cold sweat every once in a while because a life was taken and you had to do it, and even though it was morally and legally right, you wish to God and all that is holy that you never HAD TO do it.

    I can see your teeth gnashing right now...man, you'd like to "show me a thing or two". Well all you have shown me so far is your ass. If all you can do is run to INFRINGEMENT and SECOND AMMENDMENT...then you haven't really read or absorbed anything I tried to say. You are so dogmatic in your argument, just like a freakin' democrat or a liberal. I am guessing you haven't had an original thought EVER in your life. You sir...are a sorry excuse for the rest of the gun community.

    YOU HAVE THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO CARRY. YOU EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY WHILE YOU ARE DRUNK SOME PLACES. BUT IT JUST ISN'T SMART. I am not trying to, nor can I, infringe on anything. I am not a doctor, nor am I a veterinarian...but I did grow up on a working horse ranch, and I know a horse's ass when I see one.

    Have a nice day, and drive safely.

    IMHO

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman1911 View Post
    There you go with that INFRIGING again. "Infringement" is legally prohibiting, NOT THE EXCERCISE OF COMMON SENSE AND GOOD JUDGEMENT ON THE PART OF THE INDIVIDUAL. It's about common sense. Allow me to repeat myself...I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CARRY YOU GUN. I just happen to think that CARRYING A GUN WHILE CONSUMING ALCOHOL IS THE ACT OF A COMPLETE IDIOT WITH NO REGARD FOR THE SAFETY OF HIMSELF OR THOSE AROUND HIM.

    I am nowhere near high and mighty or a know-it-all...but clearly I am a know-more-than-some-dummy-drunk-with-a-gun. I mean do you advocate slapping your wife and playing with electrical sockets after a shower too? Send your kids out to ride their tricycles on a freeway? Go skydiving without a parachute?

    Let me boil this down to a couple of very simple questions that even you MIGHT be able to answer IF you are honest with yourself.

    Here goes....are you ready? Got your thinking cap on?

    "Are you fully capable of making completely sound judgements while intoxicated?"

    "Have you EVER done anything while intoxicated that a reasonable person would regret later?

    "Have you EVER engaged in a fistfight over something stupid and thought MAN, I'D LIKE TO KILL THAT SOB?"

    How would YOU feel about drinking and packing if someone YOU love got killed by a nitwit who was loaded and packing?

    Or....am I right on the button here in my assessment that YOU are one of those armchair commandos who think that your gun makes you a tough guy and you are JUST WAITING with a stiffy to get a chance to blast someone who crosses you, and by golly will you be a hero in your own eyes.

    Are you THAT GUY...you know the one who hangs around convenience stores in bad neighborhoods just PRAYING someone will come in and try to rob the place so you can be the hero and gun 'em down?

    I have seen THAT GUY. I have dealt with THAT GUY more than once. THAT guy is the one who hangs around cops, and buys himself a CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT badge, and maybe gets himself a hat that has POLICE or SHERIFF printed on it and open-carries just so people might THINK he's a cop. You know...THAT GUY...who would LOVE to be a cop, but didn't have the drive, or the guts, or the ability to actually EARN YOUR BADGE. You know...THAT GUY...the one we laugh at. The ones of us who EARNED our shields or stars, and did a hell of a tough job and did it the best way we knew how. The ones of us who have been there and still wake up in a cold sweat every once in a while because a life was taken and you had to do it, and even though it was morally and legally right, you wish to God and all that is holy that you never HAD TO do it.

    I can see your teeth gnashing right now...man, you'd like to "show me a thing or two". Well all you have shown me so far is your ass. If all you can do is run to INFRINGEMENT and SECOND AMMENDMENT...then you haven't really read or absorbed anything I tried to say. You are so dogmatic in your argument, just like a freakin' democrat or a liberal. I am guessing you haven't had an original thought EVER in your life. You sir...are a sorry excuse for the rest of the gun community.

    YOU HAVE THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO CARRY. YOU EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY WHILE YOU ARE DRUNK SOME PLACES. BUT IT JUST ISN'T SMART. I am not trying to, nor can I, infringe on anything. I am not a doctor, nor am I a veterinarian...but I did grow up on a working horse ranch, and I know a horse's ass when I see one.

    Have a nice day, and drive safely.

    IMHO


    100% of your post here is just you projecting your fears onto me. Typical Liberal mindset, even if you dont consider or call yourself one.


    YOU HAVE NO DAMN IDEA WHAT I WOULD DO IN THE SAME SITUATION, zero, zilch, nada......, or anyone else for that matter, (unless you have dealt with the same person in the past in the exact same situation per your old profession, even then you cannot be 100% sure)

    You have NO RIGHT to tell ME or anyone else how to exercise our rights......... What dont YOU understand about THAT?.

    People in this country have rights, period, until, not before, (get that part through your liberal mind) their exercising of those rights infringes on anothers rights....


    For the record..... I myself would not have a drink if I was out somewhere that served alcohol...... But I will defend to the death ( I took an oath , I think you did too.....) anyone else's right to do so.

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