When denied our 2nd amendment rights?
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Thread: When denied our 2nd amendment rights?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    When denied our 2nd amendment rights?

    I heard there is a website that you can report a business that does not allow for patrons to ccw.

    Well, I just found out an event I attend every year that is an auto auction does not allow their patrons to CCW.

    They do not wand, or walk through metal detectors. They DO search purses and backpacks. I have attended this auction for over 20 years and since I only started carrying this year, i called and asked them (anonymously) if they allow for CCW to carry. They said "NO". I told them: 1) the bad guy's would not listen to that and 2) I would not attend and would let it be known they ignore our 2nd amendment rights and 3) This even has about 50,000 a day come through, many people buy cars worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and MANY people carry large amounts of cash. I'm sure MANY people do carry, and don't ask first. I was doing the asking as a courtesy. I have their legal people calling me back this afternoon.

    How would you handle it? and what is the website to report businesses that do not allow carrying?

    Thanks.

  2.   
  3. Sounds to me like you are on the right track. Folloe through ans keep us posted how it works out. Oh yea, I would like to know that web site as well.
    Thanks
    TDP

  4. Private Property

    While I agree that "gun free zones" are a joke - let's remember that Second Amendment or not private property owners can make whatever rules they want pertaining to you being allowed to enter or remain on their property.

    It's good that you asked before doing. It shows that you respect the property owners right to deny people carry weapons on their property. It places responsible gun owners in a good light.

    So, my advice would be - be respectful, polite, and only deal with facts. Concealed license/permit holders have undergone extensive background checks, have to have been and remain law abiding to get/maintain their license. And at the end of the day, provided the [email protected]% does not hit the fan, no one will know you are carrying a weapon - concealed means conceded.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas, for now
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketboy View Post
    While I agree that "gun free zones" are a joke - let's remember that Second Amendment or not private property owners can make whatever rules they want pertaining to you being allowed to enter or remain on their property.

    ...
    This has been troubling me. Where in the constitution does it say that property owners have these rights and their rights outweigh my 2A right to self defense?

    I read about Property Rights here - Property Rights, Freedom, and the Constitution. Interesting read. Not just land, but everything, including himself.

    I repeat one paragraph here:

    Readers will note that the above formulation does indeed place property ahead of freedom of religion, press, speech, and assembly, the right to petition the government, the right of self-defense, the right to be secure in one’s home, and the rights of the accused, including the right against self-incrimination and the right to a fair and speedy trial in which one may face one’s accusers. In short, the Framers placed property rights higher than all the rights that are most commonly associated with them.

    Seems the Framers thought that self defense was less important the property rights (but check the link - some Framers thought the opposite). But these right to self defense was put in the Second amendment, while property rights wasn't mentioned until the Fifth and if property rights were so important, why wasn't it put in the Constitution itself in the first place?

    It seems there is a conflict here - I have a right to defend myself but a private citizen has the right to deny me that right if I enter his land. And the US Gov denies me that 2A right to defend myself on some Gov land (post offices, federal buildings, schools, etc) even though the land is owned by "We the People"?

    Personally I think that, at the time, some of their interest in property rights was due to the British seizing property. Self defense wasn't that much an issue then since I'll bet most people carried some sort of firearm when traveling or had one at home. And since the firearm is property, then there had to be protection against seizing that firearm.

    If seems that if someone is going to deny my right to defend myself, then I have to right to ensure that they can and will provide for my security at least at the same level that I can provide it to myself. Banning firearms from a place of business doesn't do that for me.

    Somehow I think there needs to be distinction between personal property (my house, the land it's on, my money and possessions, etc) and commercial property (businesses and property owned by the People, etc). I think the framers were referring to personal property in most of what they were saying and that's ok - I can choose my friends. But today commercial property has the same rights as personal property and in some cases with commercial property I can't choose my friends - there is only one Post office.

    As it now, I tend to avoid places that disallow firearms since I can't be guaranteed that security.

    Ok I know this is going to stoke the flames. Please don't attack me. I'm just interesting in others viewpoints on this subject. Understand I hated History when I had to take it school so be gentle. Let's not get personal, ok?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Laurinburg NC
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    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan .When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours - Stephen Roberts

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Orleans, LA
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    2,804
    Would you guys be interested in having a forum to discuss companies that are against or for firearms? I could do that pretty easy, lmk and I'll make it happen.

    I was thinking two new forums:
    Businesses For Firearms & 2nd Amendment
    Businesses Against Firearms & 2nd Amendment


    Memberships: NRA, GOA, USCCA
    Guns: Glock 26, Ruger LCP, Beretta 90-Two .40, Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact 9MM, Beretta Tomcat, Bushmaster Patrolman M4

  8. #7

    Thumbs up Good idea

    Quote Originally Posted by lukem View Post
    Would you guys be interested in having a forum to discuss companies that are against or for firearms? I could do that pretty easy, lmk and I'll make it happen.

    I was thinking two new forums:
    Businesses For Firearms & 2nd Amendment
    Businesses Against Firearms & 2nd Amendment
    That actually sounds like a great idea.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Orleans, LA
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    2,804
    Couple other people thought it was a good idea so here ya go.

    Businesses For Firearms & 2nd Amendment

    Businesses Against Firearms & 2nd Amendment


    Memberships: NRA, GOA, USCCA
    Guns: Glock 26, Ruger LCP, Beretta 90-Two .40, Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact 9MM, Beretta Tomcat, Bushmaster Patrolman M4

  10. #9
    Missouri Concealed Carry Gun Permit and Firearms Information Website has a 'boycott list' that is frequently updated with new non CCW friendly businesses and removes ones that have become 'friendly'.
    I would think a national type list would be a bit difficult to maintain, but I'm open for trying it.

    MissouriCarry.com Concealed Carry News and Events

  11. #10
    The 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights only apply to government action.

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