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  1. #21
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    Boeing move to Charleston SC WHY??????? Climate......? (Summers are 92 degrees with 98% Humidity at 600am) maybe our well educated work force.........(Second worst in the Nation) RIGHT TO WORK STATE......GEE MAYBE, AS WELL AS..... Just prior to their decision the Vought Plant voted OUT the union and Boeing came. Boeing bought Vought out and said HELLO Free people.
    Kinda a no brainer to me. As for CEO's and their wages, you can educate yourself and possibly have his job OR You can stay in the union and get seniority. Again another no brainer. UNIONS suck profit, CEO's generate it. Without the CEO's there wouldn't be a business to bleed. IF YOU CARE TO READ some. Please Google Georgetown Steel Mill, Georgetown, SC. Plants been opened/closed/open/closed under Unions. Plants now OPEN for business, why you asked...................NO UNION. (I aint saying no brainer again)
    Oh and the middle class proaganda................Yea, keep drinking that KoolAid.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

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  3. #22
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    People are getting fed up with unions for things like what is going on with Ohio Education Association and Andy Thompson. Union spending on smear ads of a union members husband. And her being forced to help pay for those attack ads. Yep, because she is forced to pay union dues to have her teaching job. Also while the liberal left are complaining about the SCOTUS ruling on election donations, don't for a minute think your public employee unions aren't wringing their hands at the thought of buying elections.

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Have you stopped and wondered why America is no longer making as many items as before it is due to the upper rich moving their work to 3rd world countries where they don't have to pay as much to their workers.
    I hate to tell you but this is free enterprise. Any company tries to reduce costs wherever it can.

    I can also tell you that making stuff in China isn't as easy as it used to be. Producing components or finished goods in China presents issues with Quality (no surprise there) and Logistics. Also, believe it or not Chinese manufacturers are starting to have trouble finding workers. In the past they would build their factories near the eastern half of the country and bring workers in from the western part (where there is absolutely nothing) as needed. Now, companies are starting to build plants in the western half of the country. The result is that the plants in the eastern half are having worker shortages on a huge scale (one I know of was 200 workers short). Basically there are getting to be more jobs than workers (which sounds wierd when you consider China has 1.4 billion people).

    If and when these companies start producing in the US again, they will almost certainly locate in right-to-work states.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    Boeing move to Charleston SC WHY??????? Climate......? (Summers are 92 degrees with 98% Humidity at 600am) maybe our well educated work force.........(Second worst in the Nation) RIGHT TO WORK STATE......GEE MAYBE, AS WELL AS..... Just prior to their decision the Vought Plant voted OUT the union and Boeing came. Boeing bought Vought out and said HELLO Free people.
    Kinda a no brainer to me. As for CEO's and their wages, you can educate yourself and possibly have his job OR You can stay in the union and get seniority. Again another no brainer. UNIONS suck profit, CEO's generate it. Without the CEO's there wouldn't be a business to bleed. IF YOU CARE TO READ some. Please Google Georgetown Steel Mill, Georgetown, SC. Plants been opened/closed/open/closed under Unions. Plants now OPEN for business, why you asked...................NO UNION. (I aint saying no brainer again)
    Oh and the middle class proaganda................Yea, keep drinking that KoolAid.
    Well last I checked the CEO does not get his hands dirty or build the airplanes so Boeing makes money by selling airplanes without worker building the airplane what profit would the company see. As you pointed out in your reply to my statement the workforce is lacking the education needed in SC so while the company will pay them less it will also suffer from the mistakes made that will show up later.

    From your example given yes I do agree that some unions are bad for businesses and causes the company to go out of business. But that does not mean all union are like that or will do that to the company some are smart enough to know that you don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs because you are hungry. you wait for it to lay an egg and then go and buy some food to hold you over.

    Now go back into history and look at how the work place used to be before unions where formed. I am willing to bet you would not like to go back to how it was before unions where formed. I will also agree with you that some unions got to greedy and killed their golden goose.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
    I hate to tell you but this is free enterprise. Any company tries to reduce costs wherever it can.

    I can also tell you that making stuff in China isn't as easy as it used to be. Producing components or finished goods in China presents issues with Quality (no surprise there) and Logistics. Also, believe it or not Chinese manufacturers are starting to have trouble finding workers. In the past they would build their factories near the eastern half of the country and bring workers in from the western part (where there is absolutely nothing) as needed. Now, companies are starting to build plants in the western half of the country. The result is that the plants in the eastern half are having worker shortages on a huge scale (one I know of was 200 workers short). Basically there are getting to be more jobs than workers (which sounds wierd when you consider China has 1.4 billion people).

    If and when these companies start producing in the US again, they will almost certainly locate in right-to-work states.
    If they were based here in the USA and they moved to China what makes you think that they will come back to the USA? Also the amount of money they would have to pay for workers here in the USA would be 1000% or more then what they pay a Chinese person. One Chinese employee was talking about how $6.00 a month was what he was earning from the work he did and he was happy to be getting it for he was making $3.00 more then he would if he was working back in his home village. I just don't see to many Americans willing to work 160 hours a month for $6.00. And I got the 160 hours from an eight hour work day five days a week.

  7. #26
    Unions are "good", to a certain point. That point being where the worker is more loyal to his/her Union than they are to their company. Note that Unions provide NO JOBS, per se. It is the Company that provides the jobs.

    To push a company to the point where it endangers the profitability or the competitiveness of that company is criminal stupidity. That is where "your" jobs lie, not in the Union Negotiating Team.

    .... and right there is where the Unions make their biggest mistake. They blithely assume that every red blooded American is supposed to support the Union "cause", blindly and from some charitable notion that somehow the average rank and file American is supposed to feel "unity" with their demands.

    It doesn't work that way. Your average rank and file American will opt (given the option to begin with) for the best product at the best price. Why? Because they, too, have to stay within their budget. (They could, I suppose, do like the Government does, simply print more money to meet their needs, but there is a Law against that, it's called counterfieting.) As such, a lot of the plaintive (and self serving) wailings of the "Poor", "Overworked" workers falls on deaf ears. Every man/woman will, inevitably, opt for the purchase that provides best "solution" for THEIR needs, not yours.

    That's why it's called competition. One is expected to compete for the loyalty of the consumer, not demand it. (Or request the Government to codify your demands into Law.) Thus, if two equal quality products, one made overseas and one made in the US are offered and the one made overseas is priced lower than the locally made one, despite the additional costs of shipping halfway around the world, there is a problem with the ideal of competitiveness here and the US workers don't see (or will not see) that.

    As this situation becomes more prevalent and apparent, one can easily see exactly why more and more of our consumer manufactoring is done overseas. It's a simple case of competition and price. (Toss in a batch of costly Government regulatory unnecessities on top of that.... only exacerbates the problem.)

    Then you find yourself out of a job, with NO reasonable hope that you will ever get that job back.... and you wonder why.

    You forgot one of the little facts of life. In a world of free trade and rather open competition, WAGE COMPETITION is part of the resultant cost considerations of production. For you Union out of work types, the "furriners" work for slave wages. From their POV, they are more than happy to have a job that gives them a leg up toward "middle class" living standards. (Exactly why you formed "Unions" for in the first place!)

    It's all a matter of perception.

    This "state of affairs" has been brewing for decades, much to the loss of the Union "power grip" on the Nation's industry. Unfortunate, but true. For those of you sitting around waiting for those jobs to magically come back for your personal edification and employment, I would expect a fully remedial situation to occur, even if steps were taken to MAKE it "turn around" right now, in about the same amount of time it took to develop. Thus, for many of you of middle age, not in your lifetime.

    I'm not going to give any advice here. You have been "handicapped" here, rightly or wrongly. Much of it of your own doing. There does exist means by which to overcome that handicap. Those who are proactive in their own well being are already taking the steps that I would only advise anyway. Those that sit around wailing about past glory.......

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovisitor98 View Post
    If it weren't for the Teamsters at UPS I would be lugging 150 lb pkgs around til I was 66. As it is I left at 55 with + $5k/month. Look at what non-union FedEx gives their retirees and tell me that unions are bad for the working guy.
    Why do non -union people complain about the salaries of union officials and ignore CEOs making 10s of millions of dollars?
    Union aren't bad (short term ) for the working guy, they're bad for the economy.

    What do you think is going to happen when UPS has more people on retirement than it does working?

    Where will your 5k a month be then? What's going to happen when I decide I'd rather pay Fed Ex less for the same service ( they don't have to come up w/ 5k per month per retiree you know) ?

    I worked as a machinist for several years and watched unions price American workers right out of a job.

    I agree Unions were needed in their day but that day is long past
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    If they were based here in the USA and they moved to China what makes you think that they will come back to the USA? Also the amount of money they would have to pay for workers here in the USA would be 1000% or more then what they pay a Chinese person. One Chinese employee was talking about how $6.00 a month was what he was earning from the work he did and he was happy to be getting it for he was making $3.00 more then he would if he was working back in his home village. I just don't see to many Americans willing to work 160 hours a month for $6.00. And I got the 160 hours from an eight hour work day five days a week.
    I don't know if they will or not. That is why I said "IF and when." I can tell you that manufacturing in China presents a lot of logistical and quality problems and in some cases they are beginning to outweigh the benefits. Add to this the fact that as the competition for workers goes up the wages will go up, though I admit they have a LONG way to go.

  10. #29
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    If the unions were so needed right now, why would the Japanese, MB, and BMW build plants in the South? And in the case of BMW and atleast one Japanese firm, ship cars from the US to Europe.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    If the unions were so needed right now, why would the Japanese, MB, and BMW build plants in the South? And in the case of BMW and atleast one Japanese firm, ship cars from the US to Europe.
    Those would be Ro-Ro Vssl's loaded by Union Labor. Not saying it's a completely bad thing BUT it completely locks out any competition. And as we all know, no competition, the sky's the limit on services being preformed.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

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