Tenn. ATF Abuse Alert
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Thread: Tenn. ATF Abuse Alert

  1. #1

    Tenn. ATF Abuse Alert

    Received this notice today from ATF today. Does anyone have any better information on this case? This seems to be on every news site linked to the Internet without any further information.

    Was there more to this than an uninformed citizen selling his personal firearms at a Flea Market? I think we're back to the days of out of control ATF pursecution of gun owners.

    See Release here: USAO Press Release -

  2.   
  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by 44WCF View Post
    Received this notice today from ATF today. Does anyone have any better information on this case? This seems to be on every news site linked to the Internet without any further information.

    Was there more to this than an uninformed citizen selling his personal firearms at a Flea Market? I think we're back to the days of out of control ATF pursecution of gun owners.

    See Release here: USAO Press Release -
    IMO, it looks like whomever typed it is a moron. There are so many errors. 1. 3 zeros after the decimal point. 2. 2nd paragraph, line 3 is nonsensical. 3. Same paragraph, line 4 "between during".
    Last edited by weekendskp; 03-02-2011 at 02:39 PM. Reason: second opinion
    "The 2nd amendment was never intended to allow private citizens to 'keep and bear arms'. If it had, there would have been wording such as 'the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'." -- Ken Konecki on Usenet, on 27 Jul 1992

  4. #3
    here is a link to the plea agreement which sets out the facts.

    Wayne Rumley Plea Agreement

    The guy was selling guns he was buying from others. Pretty clear violation.

  5. #4

    Still suspicious...

    nogods, thank you for the link to the plea agreement.

    I will agree that it sounds as though he was sourcing guns from private individuals to keep and to dispose of. However this is what matters,
    18 U.S.C. Chapter 44
    SS 921 Definitions.
    (a) as used in this chapter -
    (11) The term "dealer" means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term "licensed dealer" means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

    (21)The term "engaged in the business" means -(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principle objective of livelyhood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

    Note that paragraph 21 above was liberally ignored in the Plea Agreement. Especially the words enhancement and hobby seem to be of no use to the defense of a person who may buy, own and sell several guns during the course of a year. No one to my knowledge ever sets out to lose money or break even in a deal.

    26 U.S.C.
    SS 5845 Definitions.
    For the purpose of this chapter -
    (b) Machinegun. The term 'machine-gun' means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

    There are other posts here about people who have had to deal with the "machinegun" terminology and the bureau's "Technology Branch" that have faired as well as Mr Rumley. The only information I can find about Pac West Arms is that they made a receiver and sold parts. I suppose it comes down to what parts were installed in this particular frankengun that the owner may possibly been aware of. It also seems as though Mr. Rumley disclosed a lot of information that would not normally come up in the course of a normal conversation with a stranger. (Shades of Ruby Ridge anyone?)

    After reading through the entire Plea Agreement I am convinced that at the very least that Mr. Rumley's counsel are not familiar with the proper course of defense in this case and Mr. Rumley finds himself ensnared in a nightmare he did not anticipate when he started out to sell some guns as a hobby for some spending money.

    I know of similar "dealers" right here in my area who are not licensed and who get away with things Mr Rumley had probably never though to try. Is that right, or is Mr Rumley just the first of a new wave of "enforcement" measures yet to come?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 44WCF View Post
    After reading through the entire Plea Agreement I am convinced that at the very least that Mr. Rumley's counsel are not familiar with the proper course of defense in this case and Mr. Rumley finds himself ensnared in a nightmare he did not anticipate when he started out to sell some guns as a hobby for some spending money.

    I know of similar "dealers" right here in my area who are not licensed and who get away with things Mr Rumley had probably never though to try. Is that right, or is Mr Rumley just the first of a new wave of "enforcement" measures yet to come?
    I think his lawyer knew the facts and gave him good advice. The agents got him to admit that he was in the business of purchasing guns and reselling them for a profit. He even said he wouldn't sell a gun unless he made at least $50 profit.

    The agents also engaged in multiple transactions with him for multile firearms to establish that his activity was not casual or a hobby. They also observed hime selling to others and got him to admit that on several occassion that he had sold out certain types of firearms and he was exepecting to get more in for puposes of re-selling them.

    He cooked his own goose.

    RUMLEY advised that he buys and sells guns, and that he has to make $50 on each one that he sells or he will take them home and put them in his safe.

    RUMLEY advised that he did not go to the gun shows because you couldn't buy anything to re-sell there. RUMLEY stated that he had sold all of his pistols, and that he had about 40 long guns.

    The case reminded me of one I had years ago. My client was a cpa accused of aiding taxpayers in filing false returns. We were going to defend the case on the basis that the government's witnesses were simply people who got caught cheating on their tax returns and were now trying to blame their cpa.

    Then the US Attorney provided us with the tapes and transcrapits of our client advisng three different undercover agents on three different occasions how to cheat on their tax retuirns in exactly the same way as was done by the taxpayer witnesses for the government.

    We worked out a nice plea agreement under the circumstances.

    I think Rumley's lawyers gave him good advice.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44WCF View Post

    I know of similar "dealers" right here in my area who are not licensed and who get away with things Mr Rumley had probably never though to try. Is that right, or is Mr Rumley just the first of a new wave of "enforcement" measures yet to come?
    I'll bet on that red statement in bold... Since the Supreme Court opened the door to and invited all kinds if infringement into the business of the 2nd Amendment, I fear cases like this will become the norm. They will use the interpretations and the laws to make criminals out of gun owners. Just a matter of time...

    A statistical look at Doctors vs. Gun Owners...

    Doctors
    (A) The number of physicians in
    the U.S. is 700,000.

    (B) Accidental deaths caused
    by Physicians per year are 120,000.

    (C) Accidental deaths per
    physician is 0.171

    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services.

    Now think about this:
    Guns

    (A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000 to 88,000,000.

    (Yes, that's 80 million or more)

    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

    (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188

    Statistics courtesy of FBI

    So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times
    more dangerous than gun owners.

    Remember, 'Guns don't kill people, doctors do.'

    FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT almost everyone has at least one doctor.

    This means you are over 9,000 times more
    likely to be killed by a doctor as by a gun owner!!!

    Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.

    We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!

    Out of concern for the public at large,
    We withheld the statistics on lawyers
    for fear the shock would cause people to
    panic and seek medical attention!
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  8. #7
    Hmmmmh ... I can't help but think that selling guns at a flea market seems like a pretty stupid idea to begin with, sorry.

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