Do States Have The Right To Secession & State Sovereignty?
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Thread: Do States Have The Right To Secession & State Sovereignty?

  1. #1

    Do States Have The Right To Secession & State Sovereignty?

    Folks I am starting this thread, as it appears to have great interest and I want to get the thread it originated from back on topic, thanks in advance.

    As was taught in this country; including the Great Military University West-Point, until the South was forced to rejoin the Union at gun-point at the end of the Civil War; Secession was and is allowed under the Constitutional Republic we were founded as...

    E.G.:
    CHAPTER XXXII.

    OF THE PERMANENCE OF THE UNION.

    William Rawle: A View of the Constitution: Chapter XXXII

    ...The secession of a state from the Union depends on the will of the people of such state. The people alone as we have already seen, bold the power to alter their constitution. The Constitution of the United States is to a certain extent, incorporated into the constitutions or the several states by the act of the people. The state legislatures have only to perform certain organical operations in respect to it. To withdraw from the Union comes not within the general scope of their delegated authority. There must be an express pro- vision to that effect inserted in the state constitutions. This is not at present the case with any of them, and it would perhaps be impolitic to confide it to them. A matter so momentous, ought not to be entrusted to those who would have it in their power to exercise it lightly and precipitately upon sudden dissatisfaction, or causeless jealousy, perhaps against the interests and the wishes of a majority of their constituents.
    But in any manner by which a secession is to take place, nothing is more certain than that the act should be deliberate, clear, and unequivocal. The perspicuity and solemnity of the original obligation require correspondent qualities in its dissolution. The powers of the general government cannot be defeated or impaired by an ambiguous or implied secession on the part of the state, although a secession may perhaps be conditional. The people of the state may have some reasons to complain in respect to acts of the general government, they may in such cases invest some of their own officers with the power of negotiation, and may declare an absolute secession in case of their failure. Still, however, the secession must in such case be distinctly and peremptorily declared to take place on that event, and in such case — as in the case of an unconditional secession, — the previous ligament with the Union, would be legitimately and fairly destroyed. But in either case the people is the only moving power...

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  2.   
  3. #2
    Join Date
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    If a state or states succeeded from the union and stopped paying Federal taxes I envision martial law, detainment camps (look up Garden Plot) and troops on every street corner.

  4. #3
    Which is exactly what Lincoln (Americas Greatest War Criminal IMHO) did unconstitutionally ...





    Executive Order - Authorizing General H.W. Halleck To Suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus
    December 2, 1861

    Major-General H. W. HALLECK, Commanding in the Department of Missouri.
    GENERAL: As an insurrection exists in the United States and is in arms in the State of Missouri, you are hereby authorized and empowered to suspend the writ of habeas corpus within the limits of the military division under your command and to exercise martial law as you find it necessary, in your discretion, to secure the public safety and the authority of the United States.
    In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed, at Washington, this 2d day of
    December, A. D. 1861.
    ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
    By the President:
    WILLIAM H. SEWARD.
    Secretary of State.

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  5. #4
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    Somewhere, Texas, United States
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    Texas is its own country. Out of the kindness of our hearts we allow the rest of you folks to hang out with us.
    BTW in my opinion Lincoln was one this nations greatest presidents. No not a perfect president but truly one of the best.

  6. Lincoln did not start out freeing the slaves, his intrest was strictly for the best intrest of union. This guy (dishonest abe) was more racist then kkk senator Byrd or JFK and Al gore. That alone would debunk your therory he was good.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."Frederic Bastia

  7. #6
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    I think the American Civil War decided this one.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #7
    Early in the nineteenth century, some Northerners favored secession to spare their states the ignominy of union with the slave states. Later, others who wanted to remain in the Union recognized the right of the South to secede; Abraham Lincoln had many of them arrested as “traitors.” According to his ideology, an entire state could be guilty of “treason” and “rebellion.” The Constitution recognizes no such possibility.

    Long before he ran for president, Lincoln himself had twice affirmed the right of secession and even armed revolution. His scruples changed when he came to power. Only a few weeks after taking office, he wrote an order for the arrest of Chief Justice Roger Taney, who had attacked his unconstitutional suspension of habeas corpus. His most recent biographer has said that during Lincoln’s administration there were “greater infringements on individual liberties than in any other period in American history.”

    It is a matter of congressional record that Lincoln promised a constitutional amendment to make slavery permanent and legal forever, if the South would rejoin the Union... they refused...

    CSA President Jefferson Davis offered to abolish slavery forever if the North would leave them to their sovereignty... Lincoln refused...

    Less than 3% of the Slaves in the U.S. were owned/located in the South, within the states that seceded from the North during the Civil War...

    Much like the dilemma we are faced with today the Civil War was fought in opposition to a massive centralized government, and taxation without representation; the South cut the North's purse strings and Lincoln cried what will I do without my tariff?

    The Lincoln War Crimes Trial: A History Lesson
    The list of indictments was long:

    • Violation of the Constitution and his oath of office by invading and waging war against states that had legally and democratically withdrawn their consent from his government, inaugurating one of the cruelest wars in recent history.
    • Subverting the duly constituted governments of states that had not left the Union, thereby subverting their constitution right to "republican form of government."
    • Raising troops without the approval of Congress and expending funds without appropriation.
    • Suspending the writ of habeas corpus and interfering with the press without due process, imprisoning thousands of citizens without charge or trial, and closing courts by military force where no hostilities were occurring.
    • Corrupting the currency by manipulations and paper swindles unheard of in previous UShistory.
    • Fraud and corruption by appointees and contractors with his knowledge and connivance.
    • Continuing the war by raising ever-larger bodies of troops by conscription and hiring of foreign mercenaries and refusing to negotiate in good faith for an end to hostilities.
    • Confiscation of millions of dollars of property by his agents in the South, especially cotton, without legal proceedings.
    • Waging war against women and children and civilian property as the matter of policy (rather than as unavoidably incident to combat). (General Sherman and others were called to testify as to their operations and the source of their orders.)

    Read More At:


    Lincoln’s Presidential Warrant to Arrest U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney


    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  9. #8
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    Lincoln did not free the slaves, most folks have never read the Emancipation Proclamation, try reading it, the 14th amendment to the constitution granted equality and was written after the civil war in 1868.

  10. States have the right to leave this country, however, I will agree with most in the fact of "good luck." That being said, if your state truly has nothing to offer the Government(natural resources, lots of money, and so) the Feds might let you try. I'm sure they will have other tricks though; blockades, tariffs, oh and probably a embassy of some sort with troops all around your boarder...assuming they don't attack to shrink your states boarders.

  11. #10
    Kooks arguing the Civil War again!

    As if we don't have enough important things to do

    -Doc

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