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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
    The First Amendment says:
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;....."

    There is nothing that speaks to separation of church and state or that any display of religion cannot occur on any governmental grounds or activities.
    Quote Originally Posted by jameshd View Post
    The constitution does not prevent the government from establishing a religion; just with passing a law requiring that people attend services.
    American Humor-admiral_ackbar_-_that_magnitude.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Ahhhh, but the consitituion says they
    They? They who? If you're talking about an everyman on the street, then you are right. If you talking about government officials in the course of performing their government duties, then you are wrong. Simple as that.
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    can torment you with their idea of an afterlife. just as the constitution prohibits the government from endorsing any one religion it must recognize atheism as a religion of null, subject to it's own interpretations, definitions and the infliction of it's beliefs on those who believe in a God... any God. What I'm saying is that if someone doesn't want to see a religous symbol, simply turn your head.
    Except that if it's on the grounds of a government building that I have to enter in order to interact with my government, I can't "just turn my head."
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    If you don't want to hear a blessing for the drivers before a NASCAR event then go get a beer.
    Usually just hit Mute until I see the Star Spangled Banner being sung.
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    People shouldn't push atheism and then complain that others are pushing a religion.
    Except that as you mentioned, Atheism is the "null" religion. If this were a scientific experiment, Atheism would be the null hypothesis, the state of affairs that is assumed by extant evidence and Religionism would be the hypothesis being tested. No one of fit mind is ever insulted or offended by the religious symbol they were NOT shown. If you want to live in a land where the government establishes Christianity as the official religion and puts the ten commandments or a cross on the grounds of its government buildings, go somewhere, not America, where you can establish your Theocracy. In America, that's forbidden.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

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  3. #52
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    oh...your...god.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    American Humor-admiral_ackbar_-_that_magnitude.jpg
    Except that as you mentioned, Atheism is the "null" religion. If this were a scientific experiment, Atheism would be the null hypothesis, the state of affairs that is assumed by extant evidence and Religionism would be the hypothesis being tested. No one of fit mind is ever insulted or offended by the religious symbol they were NOT shown. If you want to live in a land where the government establishes Christianity as the official religion and puts the ten commandments or a cross on the grounds of its government buildings, go somewhere, not America, where you can establish your Theocracy. In America, that's forbidden.
    Atheism is a belief, just as Christianity is a belief. You are free to exercise your belief that there is no God, so why do you deny any other religion to exercise their belief.

    Atheists have fought to remove any mention of God from anywhere, not just public buildings or government property. Atheists are not required to pray or participate in any religious activity, just as I am not required to participate in any Muslim activity, for example.

    I certainly do not wish to deny you the opportunity to practice Atheism anywhere you wish, that is a right given you by the Constitution. I just fail to see why you wish to deny me the same courtesy concerning my beliefs. And Atheism is a religion as much as is Christianity.

    Here is one definition of religion:

    A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

    and another:

    A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

    So, Atheism is a religion, not the null example you mentioned.

    And your practice of your religion or faith that there is no God is being forced on me by the very government entities where you won't allow my religious beliefs to be displayed. The lack of display is the very basis of your religion, and you have prevailed.

    As I said, I would never deny your right to be an Atheist.

    By the way, the original post was very funny and very appropriate in many ways.

  5. #54
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    Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Saying it is a belief or religion is like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby. You in fact are an atheist in respect to all other possible gods.
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan .When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours - Stephen Roberts

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
    I certainly do not wish to deny you the opportunity to practice Atheism anywhere you wish, that is a right given you by the Constitution. I just fail to see why you wish to deny me the same courtesy concerning my beliefs. And Atheism is a religion as much as is Christianity.
    Who said I was denying any private person their rights to pray or make magical hand gestures in any place that they find themselves. The issue is not what the individual does and never has been. The issue is what the collective is permitted to do through an action of government.

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nt_controversy

    If you want to pray on the court house steps, more power to ya. If you are called as a juror and want to pray in the jury box prior to the commencement of court business each day, mazel tov. If you want to conspicuously carry your Bible around whenever you go into any public building, go right ahead. If you are in a position of authority and want to force others to do those things, you'll soon find yourself out of power just like Judge Roy Moore.

    Do you get the dichotomy at play here yet? It's not about preventing you from freely exercising your religion. It's about preventing you (plural) from forcing your religion on anyone else, in general, but most importantly with the power of government should you find yourself in possession of such reigns.

    Atheism, the complete lack of any overt religious actions, on the part of government is the only "religion" permitted. Atheism is special in that way. Like the zero, only knowable by the absence of all others of its kind. Atheism is still a religion, just like zero is still a number, but just like a variable that is not permitted to take on any specific value, its value is zero. An institution forbidden to endorse any specific religion, it's religion is Atheism.

    This is the only way in which religion outside of the auspices of government can flourish. If government is Muslim, it's averse to Judaism out in the community. If government is Hindu, it's averse to Christianity out in the community. If government is Christian, it's averse to Atheism out in the community. If government is Atheistic, all religions out in the community can flourish.

    Roy Moore's assertion that without the Christian god there can be no morality or ethics flies in the face of millennia of civilization in places Christianity never went or never took hold.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  7. #56
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    This joke isn't very funny. :/

  8. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

    The conversation needs to be had, but funny it isn't.

  9. #58
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    Cathy, this will be my last post on this subject. I think enough has been said and we certainly are not going to change each others mind. Your sarcasm about "magical hand gestures" does not do you justice. I have tried to be reasonable in my discussion.

  10. #59
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    And I have been factual in mine. And as wise men have said, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but no one's entitled to their own facts.

    And localgirl, as far as I'm concerned, this whole thread has lacked for any scrap of humour from post #1.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    American Humor-admiral_ackbar_-_that_magnitude.jpg

    They? They who? If you're talking about an everyman on the street, then you are right. If you talking about government officials in the course of performing their government duties, then you are wrong. Simple as that.

    Except that if it's on the grounds of a government building that I have to enter in order to interact with my government, I can't "just turn my head."

    Usually just hit Mute until I see the Star Spangled Banner being sung.

    Except that as you mentioned, Atheism is the "null" religion. If this were a scientific experiment, Atheism would be the null hypothesis, the state of affairs that is assumed by extant evidence and Religionism would be the hypothesis being tested. No one of fit mind is ever insulted or offended by the religious symbol they were NOT shown. If you want to live in a land where the government establishes Christianity as the official religion and puts the ten commandments or a cross on the grounds of its government buildings, go somewhere, not America, where you can establish your Theocracy. In America, that's forbidden.
    But the ten commandments (there are many more than ten) is the basis of how you live your own life. It's the basis of everything you instill in your children... aetheist or believer. We all do it. Most atheists don't read the bible. If you haven't you should take a look at the old testament. It's simply a guide to living. It's an accounting book, a medical book, a law book, a book that teaches morals and ethics. And most imprtantly, America is founded in freedom of religion... the main reasons Piuritans left England. And it follows scientific theories on the birth of the universe in much detail, yet it was written many centuries before science knew of such things.

    Many people are atheists because they don't see proof of any God. That doesn't make them bad. But let me ask you this... do you love your kids? Your parents? Your Dog? -- PROVE IT! -- You can prove you took care of them, protected them, educated them made them feel safe, gave them a future? But science can never prove you loved them. Science can't prove everything that exists in all of us. However, physicists like Steven Hawking belive that science may be on the verge of discovering God exists. I for one don't believe I'm here by accident.

    The government has not established Christianity as the country's religion. Hell we can't even stop a Mosque from being built next to ground zero and that's a big problem. Regarding the government buildings I don't care if these symbols are removed if it will shut the mouths of non-believers. But atheists go way too far. A cross where a loved one died in a car accident has to be removed? A prayer before a race can't be held? "Under God" must be removed from pledge of allegiance? Code Pink protesting that God hates fags and soldiers... right at their funerals? The looney left has escaped again and is trying to impose this on everyone. If they protested at my dead son's funeral they wouldn't leave upright... whatever the cost to me!

    If you're an atheist fine. But don't you dare celebrate Christmas. Do not accept one gift. Do not take Christmas day off... get to work. Do not take part in the company party, secret santa or take one bite of a holiday cookie. Keep your kids off santa's lap at the mall. And do not purchase any item on a holiday sale. Live YOUR life, not ours.

    BTW, new gallup poll released today says 78% of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form or humans evolved with God's guidance. Let's put the issue to a vote and settle it once and for all.

    That's my opinion. You can have the last word.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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