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Thread: Voting Rights

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TooCalm View Post
    disneyr I never earned enough money to qualify for a home loan so I figured that the only way that I could ever own a home was to build it myself with Cash Money. It took me 11 years 2 months to build my home. It was worth the wait.
    In NC a citizen does not have to be a licensed building contractor to build their own home, but you do have to pass the building inspections and you have to live in the home for at least one year before the home can be sold. That is not a problem for me. I built it to live in.
    Very admirable. I sincerely laud you for your effort and your achievement. You are part of an infintesimal few in the U.S. I definitely think you should have the right to vote.
    A man's life, liberty, and property are only safe when the legislature is NOT in session. Will Rogers

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    I would submit, first and foremost, as any financial endeavour with any hope of success, all overhead must be passed on, or else the endeavour is doomed from the start. Any business that accepts taxation without passing said taxation on to their customers and ultimately to the end users, is not "maximizing shareholder value". to allow taxes to come straight out of profits is impermissible. If not passed on, it would have to instead be taken out of salaries of employees fired or not hired.

    No corporation not doomed to go out of business pays any taxes. All corporate taxes are passed on to the individual beneficiary of the corporations products and services is the corporation is not to go out of business. To claim otherwise is... disingenuous.
    I think you are making a lot of unfounded assumptions and blanket statements. No one said anything about a corporation, "maximizing shareholder value", or employees. The original statement was about not passing on the taxes somehow being disingenuous. That could only be so if one were, in fact, passing on the taxes but claiming otherwise. To actually not pass the taxes on to the renter could accurately be called stupid, but not disingenuous.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCalm View Post
    All US citizens 18 and older should be able to vote with out any restrictions what so ever. As for Felons, once they have served their time all of their constitutional rights should be fully restored.
    Would you restore a convicted multiple child killer/rapist's right to legally buy a gun?

    What if it was your child he killed? Would you still restore his rights? Sort of changes the perspective, doesn't it.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    Ummm. Yeah. Consider it additional incentive to get back on your feet. You don't have to work for a corp to be earning your own money and be off of the public dole. You can start your own business or just work odd jobs under the table. My only issue is public assistance. The details of why are irrelevant. Whether you're a good person who just fell on temporary hard times or a bad person sucking the system dry, public dole should deprive you of your rights to vote in the next election.
    Such thinking violates everything America stands for. The election of a president is based in part on his performance in creating jobs and growing the economy. When massive layoffs occur the policies of elected officials come in to question. It is the right of the people to vote them out, to replace them with someone who will stoke the economy and create jobs. THAT is what defines democracy and America.

    We the people. Not we the people who work. Remember, the other shoe may drop for you someday and you might see this issue differently when you can't make ends meet. Shall we take away your right to fix it?
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #25
    I think I would limit my "franchise" granting to those who pay Fed Income Taxes. Given that 42% of citizens do NOT owe or pay Fed Income Taxes, that would either push them to "get a dog in the race" (so to speak) and PAY some taxes at the Fed level or, at least, would take their "tax the rich" class warfare ideas off the table.

    Now, granted they pay local taxes through other means... so they can vote in local elections. But Fed level? NYET!

    Why would I want to do this? To keep no loads from voting further "loads" on us productive taxayers.... a great portion of which goes to feed, clothe and house the no loads. The "no-loads" (and their supporters) are consistant in only one thing, whining about the more prosperous not paying their "FAY-AIRE" share. Since the top 50% of wage earners pay 97% of all Fed income taxes, it could be observed that nearly all of the taxes isn't "FAY-AIRE" enough for them? If not, what IS?

    Nope. You want to have a voice on tax levels, you have a dog in the race..... see how YOU like it. (Personally, I'm getting a bit tired of supporting your sorry butts anyway.)

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Remember, the other shoe may drop for you someday and you might see this issue differently when you can't make ends meet. Shall we take away your right to fix it?
    What under Heaven and Earth makes you think I was exempting myself from any of this? I've drawn unemployment in the past, and it would have been proper that I not be permitted to vote, being on the public dole as I was. `Course, that was not in the last two years, so it would not prejudice my right to vote in the upcoming Presidential election.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    The original statement was about not passing on the taxes somehow being disingenuous,
    That could only be so if one were, in fact, passing on the taxes but claiming otherwise.
    If such a detail were so important, then it would have been stated. Since it was not stated, it was not a part of the scenario being described.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    To actually not pass the taxes on to the renter could accurately be called stupid, but not disingenuous.
    This is the point I was making.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    What under Heaven and Earth makes you think I was exempting myself from any of this? I've drawn unemployment in the past, and it would have been proper that I not be permitted to vote, being on the public dole as I was. `Course, that was not in the last two years, so it would not prejudice my right to vote in the upcoming Presidential election.
    No! Don't ever restrict your own rights. Don't ever relinquish your right to vote. Give up nothing! If masses of people are losing their jobs due to poor economic policies, it is their will that something be done. It is their voice that will change things. Unemployment is not a handout... you're not on the dole. The money comes forom state unemployment tax paid into the government out of your earnings. Same with Social Security and workmen's comp. I've paid into these system for 30 years. If I become disabled or lose my job, that's MY money being repaid, not the government's. I would much rather have not paid the tax and invested the money myself... I'd be better off.

    And trust me, the income on my rentals barely covers the property taxes. I own a two-family with (school) property taxes of nearly $10,000 per year. The rent is $19,200 per year. That leaves me $9,200 per year for mandated upkeep. When a renter has three kids they place a burden of as much as $45,000 per year on their school district. Their rent doesn't even come close to footing the bill. I favor school tax to be shared equally by everyone. Since everyone must atten school until a certain age then everyone benefits. Everyone pays and everyone votes.

    Creating a sub-class of American citizens is against every principal on which this country and democracy was founded.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  10. #29
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    I agree that in order to vote you must be
    1. a high school graduate.
    2. pay income tax
    3. be self supporting...the people who make the money should have the say in how it is spent.
    4. not be a felon
    5. FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY BE A US CITIZEN
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Let me start by saying I agree with you guys on many things. However, one issue I consistently see on these threads with which I disagree with you is on who should be allowed to vote. Allow me to explain.

    I will acknowledge that there is no "right" to vote found in the Constitution. The Constitution, via the 15th (making it illegal to keep anyone from voting on account of race), the 19th (making it illegal to keep anyone from voting on account of sex), 23rd (paving the way for DC residents to vote in presidential elections), 24th (abolition of poll taxes) and 26th (18-year olds can't be denied on account of age) amendments, simply tells states that people can't be denied suffrage on those grounds, meaning technically, the states are free to deny suffrage on any other grounds. Typically the only groups not heretofore mentioned who have been denied suffrage "rights" are children and felons.

    I regularly read on these forums from many on here that many of you believe that anyone who isn't a homeowner shouldn't be allowed to vote. I can unserstand why you'd feel that non-citizens, people who receive public aid, felons, etc shouldn't be able to vote, but people who don't own homes? Why? That would automatically eliminate people who live with their parents, college students, and people like myself who work but don't make enough money to pay a monthly mortgage. I can't speak for other renters, but I work, I pay taxes, I pay my rent and utilities on time every month, I haven't made a bunch of babies I can't afford, I don't have a criminal record, and none of my personal expenses are taxpayer-subsidized. So why do you guys feel I'm not worthy of the priviledge to vote?

    By the way, I happen to believe that ALL adults (yes even felons and those receiving public aid) should be able to vote, because EVERYONE has a stake in the decisions elected officials make, even if that stake is one that working home owners don't like.
    Sounds like some are trying to reinvent the wheel! When this country was founded, only white men with property were routinely permitted to vote (although freed Blacks could vote in four states). White working men, almost all women, and all other people of color were denied the franchise. I guess there a couple of theories on this. One that it was a holdover from the "class" system of Europe or the thought that property owners were more likely to be educated and well read enough to understand the issues and take the responsibility seriously.
    As for felons, they have lost the great privilege to vote as part of their punishment. Personally I think that, based on voting statistics, most convicted felons probably didn't vote much before they were convicted.
    It would be interesting, though to see the voting stats of property owners versus non-property owners. I really don't think it would make any difference in the numbers of people who take their citizenship seriously, though, given the apathy of most Americans when it comes to voting! I'm always amazed when people speak ill of the politicians they didn't even elect! Or, when it comes to Election Day, people complain that both candidates are "worthless," but the great majority of those who vote on Election Day have NEVER voted in the primaries that actually determine WHO finally runs.
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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