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Thread: Should a convicted felon be allowed to carry firearm

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    As others have posted, It would depend on the felon?, violent felons?, not in my life would I agree to this, tax evasion, I dont think they should loss there rights at all, Wife beaters, child molestors, thieves, never!!

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  3. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Jarman View Post
    As others have posted, It would depend on the felon?, violent felons?, not in my life would I agree to this, tax evasion, I dont think they should loss there rights at all, Wife beaters, child molestors, thieves, never!!
    The reason I used that as an example is because you can be convicted of tax evasion without actually intending to break the law.

  4. You guys are most naive.

    Here's my story.

    Over 20 years ago I was a private investigator. I was one of the few "privileged" individuals deemed "worthy" to have a concealed weapons permit in Northern California. I kept a spotless record.

    Later I moved to South Dakota and was licensed there to conduct insurance investigations AND investigated by Sheriff L#s H#wkey and awarded a concealed carry permit.

    About 20 years ago, I, and a part time employee of mine traveled to Chicago. We were not working a case, this was just personal time. We generally did not carry our weapons. But we had around 3k in cash for the whole trip (this was before everyone used credit cards for everything) and didn't want to leave it in the hotel or the car) so we kept it on us and carried our 380's in shoulder holsters under our suit coats.

    We made a decent income were fair tippers so whenever we ordered drinks and food we paid with a 20 and left the rest for a tip. Consequently we had nothing smaller than a 20 in our possession between the two of us (this will play a part later)

    On our way back to our car we were approached by a street vendor selling gold necklaces. My employee (a man of color if that makes any difference) wanted to buy a neclace. He already had a REAL gold necklace on, but he explained that he could wear these gaudy fake things on the outside of his shirt.

    He tried on a couple and bought two for $60 cash. As we were walking away I notice his REAL necklace was gone. We quickly realized that the vendor had snatched it while helping him try on the other ones.

    We ran after him. It took us a block and a half to catch up to him. He threw the necklace on the ground and we stopped at that point, discontinued the chase and began walking back to our car with all our property.

    Apparently one of our coats had flown back as we were running revealing a shoulder holster. On the walk back another street vendor asked us "Are you cops?" We told hime to mind his own business.

    Within 60 seconds we were surrounded by cops. We told them we were armed as we raised our hands and got up against the wall. At this point I knew the penalty for carrying concealed in Chicago was a misdemeanor and carried a $600 fine. I thought it was a fair trade off and was preferable to losing all our money in a robbery.

    We were arrested and taken to jail.

    There we were told we were charged with ARMED ROBBERY.

    While in receiving we we watched as two officers discussed the fact that the "victim" said we stole two gold necklaces and $61.00 but the smallest bill we had was a $20 dollar bill. They laughed at us as they broke one of the $20's between themselves and put $61 in a bag as "evidence".

    The "victim" (the street vendor who asked if we were cops) said my employee held a gun on him (it must have been his coat that flew open) while I searched his pockets and took the money and necklaces.

    Needless to say I felt that I would be vindicated because we were 100% innocent.

    I spent 56 days in Cook County jail pleading not guilty. I was beaten for my shoes

    My employee, in another tier had three ribs broken as the guards blindly struck anybody in their path during a gang fight that he had nothing to do with.

    The "victim" came to our first hearing and looked intently for family members. He approached my wife (who came all the way from South Dakota) and told her he can make this "go away" quickly for $1000. Being as naive as most of you guys are out there, she went to the police and told them. Once again, they laughed at her. She told me about it and I told her not to give him a dime because I'm innocent and the system will not fail me.

    After all that time in jail it began to wear on my employee. He decided to plead guilty because they told him he could get out THAT DAY if he plead guilty.

    My attorney told me to to the same. I was out of money. I had spent all the cash I had plus the few thousand I had in savings just on 6 court appearances. I asked for a court appointed attorney and was denied.

    I was told that since my employee plead guilty AND since the judge had granted the motion to try us together, that the fact he plead guilty would guarantee a conviction and a sentence of 6 to 30 years for me. Still I would not plead guilty.

    I was given the option to plead "Nolo Contendre" with a felony conviction that would be reduced to a misdemeanor at the end of a 30 month probation resulting in no restictions on my rights.

    I plead no contest to simple robbery and the judge accepted my plea. I got out at about 7pm the same day (Dangerous criminal?????)

    I thought we were all good after I spent 30 months of spotless probation.

    It didn't take long to find out that I couldn't pass a background check and I had apermanent felony on my record. Apparently the judge didn't agree with my plea bargain and it never made it into any of my paperwork.

    Illinois is a state with ZERO chance of any pardon or sealing of records or any of the other remedies available to people convicted in other states.

    So now, here it is over 20 years later. I have children I want to teach to defend themselves AND I DO. I have a home I wish to protect from thieves and other criminals AND I DO. I have rights as a human being that were recognized by the founding fathers as being ABOVE any rights the could be granted by any constitution AND I USED THOSE RIGHTS.

    The only difference is I use them in constant fear that one wrong move and my family could lose the man they've known as father, breadwinner, successful business man and employer of dozens could wind up in prison instantly under some ridiculous "felon in possession" charge for something I didn't even do over twenty years ago.

    So if you think it can't happen to you. It can. I was one of you.

    Now I'm one of "them".

    The only thing I did "wrong" was carry concealed in a state where is is prohibited which allowed a con man to try to extort my family. And even that wouldn't be wrong if the states recognized our human right to self protection.

  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    The reason I used that as an example is because you can be convicted of tax evasion without actually intending to break the law.
    You mean like our current Treasury Pickpocketer Geitner??? Oooopppsss! he wasn't convicted...
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

  6. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by accidentalfelon View Post
    You guys are most naive.

    Here's my story.
    ......

    So if you think it can't happen to you. It can. I was one of you.

    Now I'm one of "them".

    The only thing I did "wrong" was carry concealed in a state where is is prohibited which allowed a con man to try to extort my family. And even that wouldn't be wrong if the states recognized our human right to self protection.
    I am sorry for what you had to go through. I feel for you. I really do. Illinois is an evil state.

    Anyway, welcome to this forum.
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

  7. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by accidentalfelon View Post
    You guys are most naive.

    Here's my story.

    Over 20 years ago I was a private investigator. I was one of the few "privileged" individuals deemed "worthy" to have a concealed weapons permit in Northern California. I kept a spotless record.

    Later I moved to South Dakota and was licensed there to conduct insurance investigations AND investigated by Sheriff L#s H#wkey and awarded a concealed carry permit.

    About 20 years ago, I, and a part time employee of mine traveled to Chicago. We were not working a case, this was just personal time. We generally did not carry our weapons. But we had around 3k in cash for the whole trip (this was before everyone used credit cards for everything) and didn't want to leave it in the hotel or the car) so we kept it on us and carried our 380's in shoulder holsters under our suit coats.

    We made a decent income were fair tippers so whenever we ordered drinks and food we paid with a 20 and left the rest for a tip. Consequently we had nothing smaller than a 20 in our possession between the two of us (this will play a part later)

    On our way back to our car we were approached by a street vendor selling gold necklaces. My employee (a man of color if that makes any difference) wanted to buy a neclace. He already had a REAL gold necklace on, but he explained that he could wear these gaudy fake things on the outside of his shirt.

    He tried on a couple and bought two for $60 cash. As we were walking away I notice his REAL necklace was gone. We quickly realized that the vendor had snatched it while helping him try on the other ones.

    We ran after him. It took us a block and a half to catch up to him. He threw the necklace on the ground and we stopped at that point, discontinued the chase and began walking back to our car with all our property.

    Apparently one of our coats had flown back as we were running revealing a shoulder holster. On the walk back another street vendor asked us "Are you cops?" We told hime to mind his own business.

    Within 60 seconds we were surrounded by cops. We told them we were armed as we raised our hands and got up against the wall. At this point I knew the penalty for carrying concealed in Chicago was a misdemeanor and carried a $600 fine. I thought it was a fair trade off and was preferable to losing all our money in a robbery.

    We were arrested and taken to jail.

    There we were told we were charged with ARMED ROBBERY.

    While in receiving we we watched as two officers discussed the fact that the "victim" said we stole two gold necklaces and $61.00 but the smallest bill we had was a $20 dollar bill. They laughed at us as they broke one of the $20's between themselves and put $61 in a bag as "evidence".

    The "victim" (the street vendor who asked if we were cops) said my employee held a gun on him (it must have been his coat that flew open) while I searched his pockets and took the money and necklaces.

    Needless to say I felt that I would be vindicated because we were 100% innocent.

    I spent 56 days in Cook County jail pleading not guilty. I was beaten for my shoes

    My employee, in another tier had three ribs broken as the guards blindly struck anybody in their path during a gang fight that he had nothing to do with.

    The "victim" came to our first hearing and looked intently for family members. He approached my wife (who came all the way from South Dakota) and told her he can make this "go away" quickly for $1000. Being as naive as most of you guys are out there, she went to the police and told them. Once again, they laughed at her. She told me about it and I told her not to give him a dime because I'm innocent and the system will not fail me.

    After all that time in jail it began to wear on my employee. He decided to plead guilty because they told him he could get out THAT DAY if he plead guilty.

    My attorney told me to to the same. I was out of money. I had spent all the cash I had plus the few thousand I had in savings just on 6 court appearances. I asked for a court appointed attorney and was denied.

    I was told that since my employee plead guilty AND since the judge had granted the motion to try us together, that the fact he plead guilty would guarantee a conviction and a sentence of 6 to 30 years for me. Still I would not plead guilty.

    I was given the option to plead "Nolo Contendre" with a felony conviction that would be reduced to a misdemeanor at the end of a 30 month probation resulting in no restictions on my rights.

    I plead no contest to simple robbery and the judge accepted my plea. I got out at about 7pm the same day (Dangerous criminal?????)

    I thought we were all good after I spent 30 months of spotless probation.

    It didn't take long to find out that I couldn't pass a background check and I had apermanent felony on my record. Apparently the judge didn't agree with my plea bargain and it never made it into any of my paperwork.

    Illinois is a state with ZERO chance of any pardon or sealing of records or any of the other remedies available to people convicted in other states.

    So now, here it is over 20 years later. I have children I want to teach to defend themselves AND I DO. I have a home I wish to protect from thieves and other criminals AND I DO. I have rights as a human being that were recognized by the founding fathers as being ABOVE any rights the could be granted by any constitution AND I USED THOSE RIGHTS.

    The only difference is I use them in constant fear that one wrong move and my family could lose the man they've known as father, breadwinner, successful business man and employer of dozens could wind up in prison instantly under some ridiculous "felon in possession" charge for something I didn't even do over twenty years ago.

    So if you think it can't happen to you. It can. I was one of you.

    Now I'm one of "them".

    The only thing I did "wrong" was carry concealed in a state where is is prohibited which allowed a con man to try to extort my family. And even that wouldn't be wrong if the states recognized our human right to self protection.
    First of all I am sorry this ever happened to you! You do bring up a good point, it's not exactly like we have a perfect infallible justice system where one could not become a felon simply by bad luck.

  8. I've been paying for this ever since.

    1) I lost my SD investigation business due to the time in jail and no one to cover for me with my clients.
    2) Once I moved to my current state I couldn't even get a job at a 7-11 (sells alchohol) or a car dealership selling cars because of the background check.
    3) While on probation they made me sell all my weapons.
    4) Once I started my own business 3 banks turned me down for business loans even though my credit score was in the 700's. (eventually got it through my wife)


    Some good things did come out of it though.

    I had lost all relationship with the Lord at that time. I grew up in a very conservative church that had me feeling so worthless I just gave up and quit. During my days in jail I read the bible in a few versions (something my religion would not allow) and began to discover grace.

    When I got out of Jail, my employee was supposed to come pick me up. It was 40 degrees and pouring rain. He never showed up and I've never seen him or spoke to him since. I guess he thinks it's his fault for letting his weapon be seen and pleading guilty. My wife didn't show either for a day or so. I had to walk about 5 miles that night to a homeless shelter.

    At that point I wasn't worried anymore though. I had discovered grace. As a matter of fact I was pretty positive.

    My wife had been cheating on me secretly for years, turns out she had moved in with a guy when I was in jail. That's why she was late picking me up. She didn't understand my newly discovered "religion" and we were divorced within 3 years.

    God put me in a good place. I met the best woman in the world after that and we've been married over 14 years and have our own child and ended up raising all but one of mine from the first marriage. We have never went to sleep angry and neither of us have ever cheated.

    We have owned 3 businesses. (something I would never have done had I been able to find a decent job) and have employed many. I'm respected in my industry and am asked to speak all over the country. My son is in his third year of his own business. He has two children and is a Godly man along with his wife and kids.

    I never was one to steal or hurt people. I don't even cheat on my taxes. Even when I didn't have relationship with God, I didn't have a heart to do that. One time I beat up a drug dealer and took back some money he had taken from a friends brother after getting him hooked on crack again. That's about the closest thing to violence or theft that I've ever done in my life and now I realize that even that was wrong.

    Would all this good have happened without the jolt of what happened to me? I don't know. If not, I'd welcome it to happen all over again if that were the only way to produce these results.

    But even if I had been guilty, a LIFE sentence is not always the right way to correct a person.

    What if I was guilty? If I was going around robbing people at gunpoint was what I did where is the justice of coercing my into a plea bargain and letting me out the same day? Aren't I dangerous to the public? Just 50 or so days ago I was robbing people at gunpoint???????

    And why allow me to leave the state immediately to do 30 months of "call-in" probation where I was never ONCE visited or even got to MEET my PO if I'm such a dangerous felon that I can't ever carry a weapon to protect my family?

    This isn't about protecting the public. It's all about taking your rights away one at a time.

    When the priests came to arrest Jesus Peter protected him with his concealed weapon. He took off the guy's ear. The only way to do that would be if you were trying to take off his head and missed. Even after walking 3 years with Jesus Peter was still armed. Jesus did tell him to put it away, but that was because it was Jesus' time to go. The fact that Peter was armed should say a lot to us today who are passively allowing our rights to be taken away.

  9. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by accidentalfelon View Post
    The only thing I did "wrong" was carry concealed in a state where is is prohibited.
    That's quite a story, and a surprising outcome. But you must understand that you were illegally carrying a firearm in a state where you knew the possession of such was a felony. You did it anyway, with direct disregard for the law. Well, unfortunately that chicken came home to roost. This is not something that happened to you. It's something you caused yourself. I would not have taken away your gun rights over this but it can't be sugar-coated so easily.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  10. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by accidentalfelon View Post
    You guys are most naive.

    Here's my story.....

    ....At this point I knew the penalty for carrying concealed in Chicago was a misdemeanor and carried a $600 fine. I thought it was a fair trade off and was preferable to losing all our money in a robbery....
    Who's naive?? Sorry man, but you chose to knowingly break the law and your misdemeanor turned into something worse. Bottom line - it's your fault. If you had chosen to obey the local law (a ridiculous law to be sure but a law none the less) you wouldn't be in this mess. You set yourself up for this one and it was entirely avoidable on your part.

    Your disregard of the law, no matter what you think of said law, does not reflect well on you and your quest for "justice".
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  11. Concealed carry was a misdemeaner an a $600 fine at that time.

    We had cash. We had a natural right to self protection. Not much different from speeding your wife to the hospital to give birth. Its you middle of the roaders who make every excuse for the actions of our government has who have put us as a nation at risk of losing all our rights .

    Dont try to make my actions into a felony. It was a simple finable offense.

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