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Thread: Should a convicted felon be allowed to carry firearm

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    The supreme court was NEVER intended to create law, only to interpret. Based on your response you cannot answer my challenge. But I did not expect you to. There is no language that would support your claim. And civil death was intended only to apply to incarcerated felons. The founding fathers, as someone aptly stated above, never intended for people to be released to society who were not worthy of the full measure of citizenship.

    I agree with them.
    You're ignoring a reality that has existed for around 190 years - that in the vast majority of such cases SCOTUS has supported the states and the fed when it comes to witholding certain civil rights of convicted felons, even after they're released. You may not want it that way...but that's the way it is.

    No language to support my claim?? How 'bout nearly every supreme court case on the subject for the last 200 years. That's an awful lot of "language".

    5A, written by the same Founding Fathers that you speak of, says that no citizen will be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law. Well, such laws have been enacted and reaffirmed by the courts (i.e."due process") for a long time now, just like the Founding Fathers said it could. That's some pretty important "language" too.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

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  3. Felons fit for society?

    People, just because a person has completed their sentence doesn't mean they are fit for society or fit to possess a firearm. I have worked in the Dept of Corrections for over 20 yrs and we regularly release violent offenders and sex offenders because their sentence has expired. It's not because they have done so well, many expire sentences because they don't program or can't stay out of trouble long enough to program. We not only see sex offenders re-offend but many other offenders escalate their violent behavior returning with life sentences for murder. At the very least offenders should have to prove they have been a stable/productive member of society for a period of time and apply for restoration of gun rights. But it's much easier to just say no to felons.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    ...but, once the individual is released from supervision, due process has run it's course and the person is restored to society.
    "Due process" isn't just about trying and convicting an individual. It's far broader than that. It also covers creating, enacting, and enforcing the laws that deny felons certain rights even after they're released. That's due process as well. So is SCOTUS reviewing and determining that said laws aren't unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    Preventing violent people from having guns (accepting arguendo the idea that we cannot remove these people permenently) will do very little to prevent violence...or even mitigate it. A person in a murderous rage is going to use whatever weapon is at hand, and a person plotting a crime will obtain whatever weapon they choose regardless of the law. Preventing non violent offenders from being armed is unlikely to have any effect at all.
    I agree but the laws denying a felon his/her 2A rights can be used as preventative measures. Most felons who get busted carrying a gun get arrested for something else and the gun is found on them (or in their car or home). Now instead of some minor charge and a slap on the wrist for weed or shoplifting etc., they're facing another felony charge and several more years in jail.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  5. #54
    OMG, you're one of those?! You believe that a law is a preventative measure?! News flash: criminals don't obey laws! And here's another little nugget to consider: for someone to reoffend and end up back in prison, there's usually another victim involved. That's too high a price for me.

    I respect your right to your opinion. That's what make this country great. But in all fairness you really need to pull your head out and look around at what the supreme court has been doing. They are way overpowered because they have been allowed to surpass their intended scope and boundaries. They no longer have a clear vision of the constitution, and their rulings have shown it time and time again. They routinely rule things unconstitutional that are 100% in line with the Constitution. Personally, I have zero faith in them as our chief arbiters. You watch: BHO and.his regime will soon begin a push to modernize the Constitution, due to the "fact" that the founding fathers could not possibly have possessed enough foresight or wisdom to write a digest of laws that would still be applicable to us over 200 years later. Watch.

    Forums like this won't exist then, so ill say it now: "I told you so."

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    OMG, you're one of those?! You believe that a law is a preventative measure?! News flash: criminals don't obey laws! And here's another little nugget to consider: for someone to reoffend and end up back in prison, there's usually another victim involved. That's too high a price for me.

    I respect your right to your opinion. That's what make this country great. But in all fairness you really need to pull your head out and look around at what the supreme court has been doing. They are way overpowered because they have been allowed to surpass their intended scope and boundaries. They no longer have a clear vision of the constitution, and their rulings have shown it time and time again. They routinely rule things unconstitutional that are 100% in line with the Constitution. Personally, I have zero faith in them as our chief arbiters. You watch: BHO and.his regime will soon begin a push to modernize the Constitution, due to the "fact" that the founding fathers could not possibly have possessed enough foresight or wisdom to write a digest of laws that would still be applicable to us over 200 years later. Watch.

    Forums like this won't exist then, so ill say it now: "I told you so."
    Yes, that's what bugs me about this thread, too. Why do we invest so much time in laws that will be ignored anyway? Let everybody carry and own what they want but PUNISH them HARD if they abuse it.

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    OMG, you're one of those?! You believe that a law is a preventative measure?! News flash: criminals don't obey laws! And here's another little nugget to consider: for someone to reoffend and end up back in prison, there's usually another victim involved. That's too high a price for me.
    OMG! A felon is no threat to you and me if they've been thrown back into jail for having a gun on them! OMG! Using your logic we should do away with ALL laws because as you said....criminals don't obey them in the first place! OMG! OMG!

    Geez. Calm down. I said that such laws provide a basis for punishment and, by incarcerating someone under that law, we can prevent them from victimizing me or you. As a matter of fact, most felons that get popped for possessing a gun get busted for doing something else, not while using said gun in the commission of a crime. I've discussed this with LEOs and in most cases the gun is found while the perp is being patted down - many times after committing some minor offense like buying weed, tresspassing, etc. On our local newspaper's website they publish the mugshots of recently arrested people. You can filter the database according to the charges. If you look at those charged with "Possession of firearm by convicted felon" you'll see that most don't include a charge committed with a gun (i.e. robbery w/firearm, assault w/ deadly weapon, etc.). In other words, because of the law that prohibits felons from legally possessing a gun, these clowns are going to jail for a much longer time than what they would have originally had no such law existed (if at all). Instead of facing a misdemeanor they're now facing a felony weapons charge with mandatory jail time. Here in Florida they don't mess around with gun-related crime. We may be the "Gunshine" state but the state is proportionately harsh on those who don't obey the law, especially convicted felons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    I respect your right to your opinion. That's what make this country great. But in all fairness you really need to pull your head out and look around at what the supreme court has been doing. They are way overpowered because they have been allowed to surpass their intended scope and boundaries. They no longer have a clear vision of the constitution, and their rulings have shown it time and time again. They routinely rule things unconstitutional that are 100% in line with the Constitution. Personally, I have zero faith in them as our chief arbiters. You watch: BHO and.his regime will soon begin a push to modernize the Constitution, due to the "fact" that the founding fathers could not possibly have possessed enough foresight or wisdom to write a digest of laws that would still be applicable to us over 200 years later. Watch.

    Forums like this won't exist then, so ill say it now: "I told you so."
    Well sir, with all due respect you need to pull your head out of the sand and take a look at history. This so-called "threat" that you're trying to warn us about has been SOP for nearly 200 years. It seems that 200 years worth of presidents, senators, congressmen, and SC justices have seen fit to allow SCOTUS to make such judgement calls. And SCOTUS doesn't make the laws....no court does. They simply interpret them and, if necessary, rule on their legality.

    The laws regarding "civil death" have been upheld over and over again, for many generations, by people with far more knowledge on the subject than you or I. I happen to agree with them.

    And now.......it's 1:00 and time for football! See ya later.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    once the individual is released from supervision, due process has run it's course and the person is restored to society.
    The problem is that we restore people to society, but we do not reform them. In other words, the robber, rapist, or murder, is usually the same person coming out of prison as he was going in. Actually, prisons have been shown to work in the opposite effect and harden criminals and make them even worse. Prisons do not change the attitudes, beliefs, or psychology of a person. So letting them buy guns after they prove themselves as a danger to society is not a smart idea.

  9. #58
    I have been in prisons for many years. And you are exactly right. Most criminals will come away not with a sense of, "Boy I'll never do that again," but have instead become strengthened by immersion into the collective experience and knowledge of a vast pool of criminal experience. They come out harder, smarter, with a better understanding of law and the judicial process, and a much better concept of how people get caught, and how they don't.

    If there's one thing I learned from working in prisons, its that the ones in prison are just the ones who were caught. The smart ones are still out there!

  10. #59
    @B2Tall...

    Hmmm...sounds like you're agreeing with me, but you just can't admit it. I'm ok with that. Enjoy your football. Peace out.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    @B2Tall...

    Hmmm...sounds like you're agreeing with me, but you just can't admit it. I'm ok with that. Enjoy your football. Peace out.
    I believe we agree on how SCOTUS operates. The difference is that you have a problem with it but I don't. I don't see it as an abuse of power or as some sort of conspiracy. If it's a conspiracy then, after 190 yrs, it sure is taking a looooooonnnnggggggg time to develop!

    Murderers ignore the laws against murder......so should we just get rid of those laws too??
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

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