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Thread: National concealed carry?

  1. #31
    +1, nail on the head.

    As for remedies, the correct remedy is a supreme court ruling demanding that the 2nd amendment be given the same respect as the rest of the bill of rights. More legislation seems to weaken the constitutional legitimacy although it does give temporary relief.

    It's hard to be against legislation that would have good short-term consequences, but there's no doubt that it's just another band-aid when we need intravenous antibiotics. (hope my medical analogy isn't too obtuse)

    ishi

  2.   
  3. #32

    States Rights Powers

    Since the issue of "States Rights" has been mentioned here, I'd like to point out that state governments only have powers that have been granted by the people of a state in the constitution of their state, and those powers cannot be any power prohibited to the states by the Constitution for the United States, nor any power delegated to the Union exclusively such as the judicial power(State court systems are ordained into the judiciary). When you keep this in mind, it's easy to see where those people running state governments run amok - or actually do things properly. The same concept applies to the Union, of course.


    Next, you have to look at your rights in the proper perspective, or rather how those running government are instructed to operate when approaching your rights. Let's look at the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.


    As for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, it isn't a matter of you being able to exercise the right. You don't even have to if you don't want to. The proper perspective to use is that those of us in our government are forbidden to infringe upon the right. The Second Amendment instructs those of us in our government not to infringe upon the right. It doesn't much matter to those running our government to whom the right belongs, they are prohibited to infringe upon it. We all know that it is a right of the people for only people have rights.


    A system of government doesn't even exist until people create it. People come into this world with rights. Those rights all come with attendant powers of which people will choose to grant portions of to a body of people, chosen from among themselves, to use those combined powers in defense of the whole of the people, to provide for roads, a system of fair justice, etc. But, none of these rights are relinquished, nor is all of the attendant powers. From our right to defend ourselves, we grant power to our Union to defend us and our land, but we still have the right and power to defend ourselves to no less a degree than before we appointed some from among us to stand on the wall or walk that fence line.


    I have pointed this out many times: The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is absolute, and the actual keeping and bearing of arms is completely benign and innocuous.


    Quote Originally Posted by ishi View Post
    ... As for remedies, the correct remedy is a supreme court ruling demanding that the 2nd amendment be given the same respect as the rest of the bill of rights. More legislation seems to weaken the constitutional legitimacy although it does give temporary relief.

    It's hard to be against legislation that would have good short-term consequences, but there's no doubt that it's just another band-aid when we need intravenous antibiotics. ...
    I second the motion!

    Woody

    If you want security, buy a gun. If you want longevity, learn how to use it. If you want freedom, carry it. There is nothing worth more than freedom you win for yourself. There is nothing more valuable to that end than the tools of the right that make it possible. B.E.Wood

  4. #33
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Constitution Cowboy View Post
    Since the issue of "States Rights" has been mentioned here, I'd like to point out that state governments only have powers that have been granted by the people of a state in the constitution of their state, and those powers cannot be any power prohibited to the states by the Constitution for the United States, nor any power delegated to the Union exclusively such as the judicial power(State court systems are ordained into the judiciary). When you keep this in mind, it's easy to see where those people running state governments run amok - or actually do things properly. The same concept applies to the Union, of course.


    Next, you have to look at your rights in the proper perspective, or rather how those running government are instructed to operate when approaching your rights. Let's look at the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.


    As for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, it isn't a matter of you being able to exercise the right. You don't even have to if you don't want to. The proper perspective to use is that those of us in our government are forbidden to infringe upon the right. The Second Amendment instructs those of us in our government not to infringe upon the right. It doesn't much matter to those running our government to whom the right belongs, they are prohibited to infringe upon it. We all know that it is a right of the people for only people have rights.


    A system of government doesn't even exist until people create it. People come into this world with rights. Those rights all come with attendant powers of which people will choose to grant portions of to a body of people, chosen from among themselves, to use those combined powers in defense of the whole of the people, to provide for roads, a system of fair justice, etc. But, none of these rights are relinquished, nor is all of the attendant powers. From our right to defend ourselves, we grant power to our Union to defend us and our land, but we still have the right and power to defend ourselves to no less a degree than before we appointed some from among us to stand on the wall or walk that fence line.


    I have pointed this out many times: The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is absolute, and the actual keeping and bearing of arms is completely benign and innocuous.
    Very well said,

    Now if only the Supreme Court would acknowledge this in cases brought before them and tear down laws and legislation in those states that are blatent infringements of the 2A.

    Any chance you are particpating taking this arugement where it really needs to be heard?
    MΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElZorro View Post

    I'd especially expect the likes of BluesStringer to know better. Let's talk about states' powers and authorities (or lack thereof) and lay off "states' rights".

    Woody (aka constitution cowboy, nee' woodcdi), you can chime in anytime now. Where's my backup when I need him?

    I don't need any backup to say you're out of line here hotrod. You have replied to me three times now and called me out each time, the two previous times being the product of your lack of understanding of what I was even saying before going off half-cocked. Your air of intellectual superiority is annoying as all get out, but I patiently and politely clarified my position so you could understand, both publicly and privately, without so much as an "Oops, sorry" coming from you.

    Now you come here chiding me and lecturing most in this thread for having the audacity to count on the "questionable 10th Amendment" in recognizing the long-standing concept of states' rights. Excuse me, but is the 10th Amendment part of The Constitution or not? What the heck is so "questionable" about states having the right to set standards for themselves as long as no federal restriction is delineated within the rest of The Constitution? If you want to split that hair, fine, call it "authority" to do such, or "power," whatever but drop the superiority complex and just state whatever your beliefs are without going out of your way to insult people "the likes of" me. And what does that mean anyway? What do you think you know about the "likes of someone" like me? I've got 20-some-odd posts on this site, and that's all you know about me pal, so I'd say it's the likes of you who doesn't know squat about what he's talking about.

    Have a Great Day!

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #35
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    OK guys take it private and stop the flaming. I really don't care who is right or wrong in this discussion, but it doesn't need to be aired in the forum. Luke has given us the ability to IM each other and please use it.

    If you want to keep a board that is not over MODed, then stuff like this needs to be kept in check. Everyone has an opinion, you can disagree with a stance, but try to keep it polite and not call someone out on it. We are all adults and should act as such!
    NRA Rifle Coach
    NRA Pistol Instructor
    NRA Personal Protection In the Home Instructor

    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  7. #36
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    Sep 2007
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    Out in the country; Chilton county
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    Zingo, BluesStringer

    I though we had our previous misunderstanding settled (only my wife is allowed to keep bringing up the past).

    However, I'll agree that you're perfectly right in berating me for mentioning names. Apologize. Shouldn't have; won't in future.

    Ready and willing to bury the hatchet.

    Look forward to your future posts (I think).

    ElZorro

  8. #37
    The real problem in this country is that most polititions and judges fall into two camps. Those that have no idea what the Constitution says and means and those that don't care. The average American does not know or understand the constitution and the "origonal intent" of the Bill of Rights. AS long as most of the sheeple beleave that our rights come from the government rather than from our creator there is little hope. The New World Order crowd that would like to see our sovrenty replaced by a global government has us right where they want us.

  9. #38
    Several National Reciprocity bills have been introduced and either ignored or allowed to die. While I'm not for a federal CCW (or federalization) passing one of these bills to force states to recognize a CCW from any state, just like a driver's license, would be a good thing. It would not harm any states economy and would make it much easier on travelers, thereby enhancing income from tourists.
    Last edited by ronwill; 10-02-2007 at 02:19 PM.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    Several National Reciprocity bills have been introduced and either ignored or allowed to die. While I'm not for a federal CCW (or federalization) passing one of these bills to force states to recognize a CCW from any state, just like a driver's license, would be a good thing. It would not harm any states economy and would make it much easier on travelers, thereby enhancing income from turists.
    Not to mention forcing the Red states to start allowing CCW. In Illinois we have no chance until the Mayor of Chicago looses his office. The Mayor of the largest city in Illinois controls the Speaker's seat in the State Senate and also controls who gets put up for election of Gov. He and his father have held office now for over 50 years. Chicago is one of the last large cities that does not have term limits on their Mayor.

    It really stinks that downstate Illinois cannot really do anything to get him out of office. Every time a downstate Senator sponsors something useful, it gets stuck in sub-committees and never sees the light of day again.
    NRA Rifle Coach
    NRA Pistol Instructor
    NRA Personal Protection In the Home Instructor

    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  11. #40
    Ah, King Daley, the mayor of Illinois.:(
    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." -- Rep. Suzanna Gratia Hupp (TX)

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