Is Mental Heath really an Issue? - Page 2
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Thread: Is Mental Heath really an Issue?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    According to the National Institute of Mental Health, “An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.” That's nearly 58 million people in this country that are old enough to purchase a firearm. And this begs the question - what percentage of this 58 million commit these mass murders?
    You're operating from an incorrect assumption. No one is talking about preventing gun possession for any and all mental disorders. The law says those who have been adjudicated as mentally incompetent. The problem is that there is no mechanism in place to allow reporting those people without potential violation of HIPPA laws, and there is no provision to allow reporting of those who may be deemed a danger to themselves or others, but who may not have gotten to the point of legal action yet. Current law actually prohibits reporting those people. Even if you add that extra 'class' of people to the reportable pool, you're still only talking about an extremely small percentage of people with mental illnesses, and there still has to be valid and concrete reasons to consider them a danger. The possible downside I see to that process is that it's subjective, open to interpretation and could be abused. It reminds me of the very same traits seen in child services organizations with those powers. They may not get abused that often, but they do indeed get abused, and the built-in autonomy makes it difficult to detect.
    .
    As for the suicide issue, guns are banned in Japan and their suicide rate is far higher than ours. That basically means guns aren't causing suicides. They're just a convenient tool. The suicides would still occur without the guns.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

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  3. #12

    In God We Trust.

    Violent acts are commited by people with EVIL in their hearts, a mental illness didn't cause that EVIL to spawn and grow until it was uncontrollably violent creating an outward response causing the death of innocent victims. This EVIL will only grow if we as individuals allow our hearts to stray from the truth, stray from our fathers will for us to be a peace loving people. YOU must see this EVIL and recognize it for what it truly is and fight it daily, for only then will truth win in this fight over the EVIL that surrounds us on a daily basis.
    We as a nation of people have allowed the few in power to create a society in which a few non-believers in the name of progressiveness object to the general rule of religion in the daily lives of its citizens. We have lost, or more directly, ignored the truth about those who wish to control what we think and do daily for they are part of the EVIL we so diligently need to fight to keep in touch with the TRUTH that will free us as GOD'S CHILDREN.
    God Bless You All.
    I'd rather be a Conservative Nutjob. Than a Liberal with NO Nuts & NO Job

  4. #13
    Well said Dog. That is the most obvious problem we have but it will not change anytime soon. It is only going to get worse until the Lord brings it all to a screeching halt. A lot of people don't believe that but that is their problem and they will have to deal with the consequences on their own. As far as as screening potential gun owners is involved, there are many ways checks can be made on each individual without everyone having to buckle under to the government's over reach and violate the rights of all. Using just the Newtown, Tucson and Aurora shootings as examples, each shooter had exhibited problems of mental instability prior to their events but no one did anything to try to alert the authorities of their behavior. Why? The father of the man in the Tucson shooting reportedly tried to stop his son that day but couldn't. Should he have called the police? Could it possibly be fear of being sued for making an allegation against someone? In this day and age, it seems as if one can be sued for looking cross-eyed at another. The age of litigation! In each community, there are people who are mentally ill and well known there. People like that should be prevented from owning a firearm and the police, in conjunction with families or social service agencies, should insure that this information is passed on to the FBI for their check list. That would be a big step in the right direction. Police should immediately forward information to the FBI when they learn of an event that would preclude someone from having a gun. To determine the stability of an otherwise normal looking individual would require, at least, a certification from a psychologist or psychiatrist that the person is eligible for ownership of a gun. Big problem here!! Who is going to pay for the services of these professionals? Not the government!
    Rhino mentioned HIPPA laws not being violated. I read today of some states forcing physicians to turn over patient medical records so they can determine what medications they are taking. So much for HIPPA. It would seem to me that the most obvious answer to all of this hulabaloo is the government trying to, by any means possible, get our guns. This is just one step toward eventual confiscation and everyone in their right mind knows it. Even Holder said years ago that the country had to be indoctrinated into surrendering their guns. This is nothing new, only another intense attack on all of us!

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dogshawred View Post
    Violent acts are commited by people with EVIL in their hearts, a mental illness didn't cause that EVIL to spawn and grow until it was uncontrollably violent creating an outward response causing the death of innocent victims. This EVIL will only grow if we as individuals allow our hearts to stray from the truth, stray from our fathers will for us to be a peace loving people. YOU must see this EVIL and recognize it for what it truly is and fight it daily, for only then will truth win in this fight over the EVIL that surrounds us on a daily basis.
    We as a nation of people have allowed the few in power to create a society in which a few non-believers in the name of progressiveness object to the general rule of religion in the daily lives of its citizens. We have lost, or more directly, ignored the truth about those who wish to control what we think and do daily for they are part of the EVIL we so diligently need to fight to keep in touch with the TRUTH that will free us as GOD'S CHILDREN.
    God Bless You All.
    Here's one of my main problems with religion.. You say "non-believers" or atheists like myself are to blame for letting evil take over. Yet people commit acts of hate and evil in the name of their God every single day.

    The WBC is waking around promoting the killing service members, innocent civilians, and gays all the time in the name of their god. Al-Qaeda brought down the twin towers in the name of their god. Several Christian groups have bombed abortion clinics. Are they not evil because they believed their god was on their side? Religion is all a matter of perspective. Evil on the other hand is not. You don't have to believe in a deity to know that killing innocent people is wrong.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Here's one of my main problems with religion.. You say "non-believers" or atheists like myself are to blame for letting evil take over. Yet people commit acts of hate and evil in the name of their God every single day.

    The WBC is waking around promoting the killing service members, innocent civilians, and gays all the time in the name of their god. Al-Qaeda brought down the twin towers in the name of their god. Several Christian groups have bombed abortion clinics. Are they not evil because they believed their god was on their side? Religion is all a matter of perspective. Evil on the other hand is not. You don't have to believe in a deity to know that killing innocent people is wrong.
    The only abortion clinic bomber that I know of is Eric Rudolph. If you can name one "Christian group" who supported his actions, I'll accept that you know what you're talking about. Seems if Rudolph was part of a "Christian group," he wouldn't have spent the last months of his freedom living alone in the woods as a nearly starving, anorexic-like fugitive. I could be wrong though, so present your evidence that "Christian groups" should be held accountable for whatever acts of murder individuals have committed.

    The WBC is universally rejected by Christians as anything other than the evil beasts they are. I have personally stood between them and the funeral of a high school student who was killed in a school bus accident here in Huntsville in '06. Full congregations of several local churches stood with me. No one, not a single person, Christian or otherwise, stood with the blasphemers of the WBC.

    I honestly have no problem with you being a non-believer, but if you're going to jump to try to lump all of us believers in with every murderous and/or freak-show publicity-hounds who claim they, too, are believers, I'm going to push back a bit. It's like basing heavily restricting access to guns because of the 0.18% of them that are ever used in crimes. Christians who base their criminality on their religious beliefs are so minuscule as to make the juxtaposition statistically invalid. You really should stop it.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Here's one of my main problems with religion.. You say "non-believers" or atheists like myself are to blame for letting evil take over. Yet people commit acts of hate and evil in the name of their God every single day.

    The WBC is waking around promoting the killing service members, innocent civilians, and gays all the time in the name of their god. Al-Qaeda brought down the twin towers in the name of their god. Several Christian groups have bombed abortion clinics. Are they not evil because they believed their god was on their side?
    No. Believing God is on your side doesn't make you evil. And claiming a religious belief prompted a terrorist attack doesn't necessarily condemn the religion. By that logic, if we could find crimes or atrocities committed by atheists, then we would have the right to blame everything on non-believers. Radicals and zealots can commit whatever crimes they want in the name of their God, in the name of their opposition to religion or in the name of their Boston Terrier. Trying to blame their deranged actions on their religion, their lack of religion or on their dogs, is ridiculous. They do it because they're deranged madmen with a horribly corrupted value system. The members of the WBC are no more indicative of a typical Christian than the 9/11 terrorists were of a typical Muslim.
    .
    Religion is all a matter of perspective. Evil on the other hand is not. You don't have to believe in a deity to know that killing innocent people is wrong.
    Actually it's a matter of interpretation. And the point you made about knowing what's wrong is actually in agreement with what dogshawred posted. He may couch it in terms of religion, but he's talking about a value system that highly honors the sanctity of innocent lives, just as you are. And you're correct that it doesn't take religion to have those values. But dogshawred is also correct that the most widespread teaching of those values has been traditionally through the vehicle of religion in this country. And as religion has been de-emphasized and participation in religion has declined, the teaching of those values has become far less widespread. That hasn't been the only factor in the degradation of the value system in this country, but it is arguably the single largest of all the factors. You may not agree with his religious views, but you can't really fault the point he was making about the value system going downhill in this country.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Here's one of my main problems with religion.. You say "non-believers" or atheists like myself are to blame for letting evil take over. Yet people commit acts of hate and evil in the name of their God every single day.

    The WBC is waking around promoting the killing service members, innocent civilians, and gays all the time in the name of their god. Al-Qaeda brought down the twin towers in the name of their god. Several Christian groups have bombed abortion clinics. Are they not evil because they believed their god was on their side? Religion is all a matter of perspective. Evil on the other hand is not. You don't have to believe in a deity to know that killing innocent people is wrong.
    The only abortion clinic bomber that I know of is Eric Rudolph. If you can name one "Christian group" who supported his actions, I'll accept that you know what you're talking about. Seems if Rudolph was part of a "Christian group," he wouldn't have spent the last months of his freedom living alone in the woods as a nearly starving, anorexic-like fugitive. I could be wrong though, so present your evidence that "Christian groups" should be held accountable for whatever acts of murder individuals have committed.

    The WBC is universally rejected by Christians as anything other than the evil beasts they are. I have personally stood between them and the funeral of a high school student who was killed in a school bus accident here in Huntsville in '06. Full congregations of several local churches stood with me. No one, not a single person, Christian or otherwise, stood with the blasphemers of the WBC.

    I honestly have no problem with you being a non-believer, but if you're going to jump to try to lump all of us believers in with every murderous and/or freak-show publicity-hounds who claim they, too, are believers, I'm going to push back a bit. It's like basing heavily restricting access to guns because of the 0.18% of them that are ever used in crimes. Christians who base their criminality on their religious beliefs are so minuscule as to make the juxtaposition statistically invalid. You really should stop it.

    Blues
    I apologize if I misspoke or was misunderstood. I did not mean to imply that Christians as a whole committed acts of violence or condoned them. Only that the perpetrators identified themselves as a part of such group. Terry Nichols one of the OK city bombers associated himself with the Christian Identity movement. The Army of God (a self-identified Christian anti-abortion group designated by the federal government as a terrorist organization) claimed responsibly for Eric Rudolf's bombings. The KKK identified themselves as a Christian group. The WBC IDENTIFIES as a Christian group. Believe me, I am well aware that 99.9% of Christians denounce these groups as hate groups, criminals and terrorists, and in no way identify with them, the same way Muslim groups denounce the acts of Islamic terror groups. All I am saying is that the PERPETRATOR believes himself to be acting in accordance with their faith. It's a matter of perspective and clearly they had a different perspective of the faith than most. I was in no way trying to lump all "believers" in with terrorists. Evil recognizes no creed, race or belief system.

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