U.S. Troops Fire on Civilians? - Page 3
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Thread: U.S. Troops Fire on Civilians?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SR40c View Post
    Sort of agree... but there is one difference. Myself and some others will be shooting back. THAT is a huge difference.
    I am not going to disparage you for your claim that you'd return fire, however you should realize that you are probably going to be severely out gunned

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  3. #22
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  4. #23
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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    I am not going to disparage you for your claim that you'd return fire, however you should realize that you are probably going to be severely out gunned
    No argument from me about that but, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I will not be disarmed.


    I used to be a government-educated stooge. By the grace of God, I repent. -Robert Burris

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    some will many won't, you do realize that the boys are trained to follow orders now and think about it, never
    have you ever served in the military?
    You are directed not to follow unconstitutional and or illegal orders.
    The question then remains, what is a lawful order?
    What defines enemy combatant?
    And finally...
    what defines this as an illegal or unlawful action.

    I seem to remember marines refusing to take up arms during the rodney king riots. I also seem to remember a crap load of law of armed conflict (LOAC) briefings.

    firing on civilians was always a bad thing followed by prison time in the briefings.

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    have you ever served in the military?
    You are directed not to follow unconstitutional and or illegal orders.
    The question then remains, what is a lawful order?
    What defines enemy combatant?
    And finally...
    what defines this as an illegal or unlawful action.

    I seem to remember marines refusing to take up arms during the rodney king riots. I also seem to remember a crap load of law of armed conflict (LOAC) briefings.

    firing on civilians was always a bad thing followed by prison time in the briefings.
    I call BS. you last claim belies the BS of your entire screed, US marines would never have been deployed to a civil riot

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totidem Verbis View Post
    We were asked the same sort of questions back in the late 80's. At this point it seems like they are checking if they have the numbers "by now." It would be good to know at what percentage they believe they can successfully repeat a Boston style martial law in every city all at once.

    One of the indicators would be how they are training. Are orders absolute or is there a distinction between lawful and unlawful and are they allowed to make that determination. Can a private be made a leader or are they suppose to wait for one? Is there a lawyer I.e., political officer part of every team?
    All at once in every city, never. The military would have to get a heck of lot more numbers than they have now to pull that one off.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorrison View Post
    Don't sweat it folks! There will be tons of goodies coming our way should the order be given!

    Besides... I've always wanted to drive an M1A2 like a madman!
    And I'm proud to say 1 million of those came from one state, Pennsylvania.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    have you ever served in the military?
    You are directed not to follow unconstitutional and or illegal orders.
    The question then remains, what is a lawful order?
    What defines enemy combatant?
    And finally...
    what defines this as an illegal or unlawful action.

    I seem to remember marines refusing to take up arms during the rodney king riots. I also seem to remember a crap load of law of armed conflict (LOAC) briefings.

    firing on civilians was always a bad thing followed by prison time in the briefings.
    Two things I will bring up to you, the Bonus Army in the 1930's and Kent State in the 70's. Both times in which the Army was brought in against the American people, and both times the citizenry ended up dead. Trust me, there will be folks in the military who will carry out orders against the citizenry, lawfully or not.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  11. #30
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    Wolf fire, this thread will hopefully answer both you and apvbguy.
    Kent state was the ohio natl guard.
    the bonus army incident was the US Army.

    The 1992 Los Angeles Riots: Military Operations in Los Angeles, 1992
    this one covers the use of the usmc during the 1992 riots in LA.

    To Obey or Not to Obey
    This one covers lawful orders and is pretty well written.

    I remember the LA riots vividly due to the fact that my uncle was one oof the camp pendleton marines and they all pretty much stayed in the sports stadium that they were staged at. Only a small handful of marines actually went to where the CA natl guard was and that was mostly to observe. I am greatful that my service was in the USAF and not ready for riots like the Natl. Guard. One nice thing about coming from a large military family, you find out the straight skinny after the fact on lots of issues.

    btw the natl guard belongs to it's representitive state and falls under the control of the state govenor until nationalized in a time of declared war.

    The bonus army was a nightmare of its own right in DC of the Army being called in to put down an organized march on the capitol by ww1 vets demanding payment of bonus bonds issued to them during their service.
    At the time of tne bonus army, the district of columbia did not have a natl guard component, and it stands to reason that our government would treat its veterans poorly during the great depression.

    Kent state was the national guard being brought in by the govenor to quell a protest that ended with dead colloge students after one of the guardsmen discharged his rifle.

    APVBGUY...before you call shenanigans on something, do a little due dilligence.
    You never did answer if you ever served...
    I will assume that you did not since you have no working knowledge of military law, lawful orders or the requirements thereof.

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