Cop wants law prohibiting known gang members from possessing a firearm
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Thread: Cop wants law prohibiting known gang members from possessing a firearm

  1. #1
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    Cop wants law prohibiting known gang members from possessing a firearm

    I'm taking a course called the Citizens Regional Police Academy. It's a comprehensive 12 week course that gives ordinary citizens a look behind the badge, so to speak. Very interesting and quite informative I have to say.

    The last meeting focused on gangs and gang related activity in our area. We had two officers from the gang task unit speak. When we got the the Q&A portion of the night one of the citizens asked the most interesting question. He asked the officer "If you could talk to anyone in the state legislature, what law would you ask for?" He took a few seconds to think and then came up with the most interesting reply. "I would ask for a law prohibiting the ownership or possession of any firearm by any person KNOWN to be an active member of a 'criminal' gang." he said. (FYI, the Boy Scouts are legally definable as a gang.)

    As an ardent supporter of people's right to carry, that answer gave me pause. After all, what I actually support is the right of Law Abiding citizens to carry a gun. The officer pointed out that there are known gang members who are committing serious crimes, but are crafty enough to stay just 'legal' to possess a firearm. In other words, they just haven't been caught. I was taken aback to find out that there are known gang members in possession of a concealed weapons permit. Are you kidding me?

    Personally, I don't have a problem keeping guns out of these people's hands. They're bad people, even if they're smart enough to not get convicted. But I also have to recognize that we're a society that's supposed to presume innocence until proven guilty. But I dunno if I'm entirely comfortable with the premise of guilt by association either.

    I thought this might make for an interesting topic for discussion since were mostly all pro 2A here, but we're also supportive of wiping the criminal gang elements off our streets.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed​ lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin

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  3. #2
    This is a bit of a sticky wicket to say the least. Most states say no felony convictions,no domestic violence, and it goes on and on. IF they have no felony convictions etc. they have the legal right to possess a CCL, but being known to have ties to gangs with bad members in my mind should preclude them from getting a license. The law is the law, and if folks do not like it, they must vote. I and My Wife both have CCL, and are proud to be able to serve in this fashion. Knowing a gang member had a CCL definitely would keep me from shopping or frequenting any location where he/she and their friends went.
    I am old and slow, BUT dead on with my aim!!

  4. #3
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    Who says what constitutes a person affiliated with a gang?

    Many in our government call people like me potential terrorists because I am a white conservative "Christian" male who supports my local Tea Party. Will Tea party members find themselves listed as "gang members"?

    BAD, BAD IDEA!!!!

    -
    “Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.” —JAMES TOUR, NANOSCIENTIST

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Who says what constitutes a person affiliated with a gang?

    Many in our government call people like me potential terrorists because I am a white conservative "Christian" male who supports my local Tea Party. Will Tea party members find themselves listed as "gang members"?

    BAD, BAD IDEA!!!!

    -
    Well, you and I are in the same gang then my brother, except for the Christian part. I think CarryNM hit the nail on the head by calling this a sticky wicket. Does a gang member sitting down to supper with his wife and kids have a legitimate right to defend himself and his family when his house suddenly comes under fire from a rival gang? Let's say we take the attitude of 'screw the gangsta', the wife and kids certainly have a right to live. They're innocents. Makes ya think.

    This course that I'm going through makes me privy to some information that's not generally available to the public, but the question of identifying a gang member did come up and I can say that as far as our RGU is concerned, there is a definite criterion that must be met before someone is put on their list. Wannabe's are separated from the real thing.

    Here in NV, we're a 'Shall Issue' state, as long as we pass the FBI NCIC check. But that only pertains to a CCW. I have to think that if Homeland Security can put people on a 'no-fly' list willy-nilly, a person who's name is on that list is going to fail the NCIC check. Fail the check, no CCW, period. What if we had a Gang Member list much the same as the no fly list? States would be able to enact legislation saying if you're on this list, you can't possess a gun. The only thing I would want to see is a clear set of criteria to legally label a person as a gang member, (thus placing restrictions on their rights), and make sure there is a way for that person to get off that list if they decide to leave the lifestyle behind.

    According to the RGU officers, there's not a lot of hard core gang members that want to actually leave the lifestyle. I think that if people want to be a criminal, they should be treated like the scumbags they are.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed​ lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin

  6. #5
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    As has been stated this is a sticky subject. Living in a free society requires it's citizens to exercise personal responsibility. That being said if an applicant for a concealed carry permit has no criminal record and no mental issues they should be issued a permit. There's no guaranteed way to tell if someone is destined to be a future criminal. Granted criminal gang affiliation could lead one to think the possibilities. But so could the neighborhood you grow up in. If we are all presumed innocent, who will be the judge. Having a list of names on a list where names are added willy-nilly is also scary. Does the recent IRS scandal come to any ones mind. Disagree with current politics and see what list you end up on.
    "You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who gets the credit" - Ronald Reagan

  7. #6
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    I'm guessing that defining an "active member of a criminal gang" requires you to establish (with due process) that the person in question is in fact a member of the gang and that the gang is in fact criminal. How many "gangs" have been convicted of being criminal? Is it even possible to convict the whole gang of a crime? Wouldn't you have to establish proof of individual involvement?

    So, you have quite a burden of proof to establish that someone is such a person worthy of removing the right to bear arms. Not to mention that law-makers and law-enforcers often have their own agendas about different parts of society. Many cops have been convicted of criminal behaviour - does that mean the law enforcement community can be considered a criminal gang?

  8. #7
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    I think those concerns are quite legitimate and should be a heavy burden to overcome. Taking ANY right away from anyone is serious business. On one hand I like to scream and wave the flag in opposition to government oppression, then on the other hand I look at these scumbag gangs and I could care less about their rights. Any of them. Scrape em off the street, lock em up and throw away the key as far as I'm concerned. My bad, I know.

    A law like this this would have to have a high threshold to pass and I think the RGU already does it. They only have so much resources and they have to allocate them wisely. Wannabe's don't really warrant the attention that a known, violent gangster does. Gangs are a huge problem here and they have to be taken just as seriously as any California, or Chicago or New York one. Our gangs kill lots of people, they terrorize neighborhoods, they assault people, deal drugs, control street prostitution, and much more. I want em gone, I don't care if it hurts their feelings.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed​ lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greggatshack View Post
    I'm guessing that defining an "active member of a criminal gang" requires you to establish (with due process) that the person in question is in fact a member of the gang and that the gang is in fact criminal. How many "gangs" have been convicted of being criminal? Is it even possible to convict the whole gang of a crime? Wouldn't you have to establish proof of individual involvement?

    So, you have quite a burden of proof to establish that someone is such a person worthy of removing the right to bear arms. Not to mention that law-makers and law-enforcers often have their own agendas about different parts of society. Many cops have been convicted of criminal behaviour - does that mean the law enforcement community can be considered a criminal gang?
    And just to add to your last line, the NBPP would be considered a gang if it wasn't for Eric Holder blocking prosecution of them. So that makes the entire DOJ a gang.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Who says what constitutes a person affiliated with a gang?

    Many in our government call people like me potential terrorists because I am a white conservative "Christian" male who supports my local Tea Party. Will Tea party members find themselves listed as "gang members"?

    BAD, BAD IDEA!!!!

    -
    I agree. When we give the government the right to decide what groups constitute "gangs" we will all be sorry because they will stretch the definition to the max.

  11. #10
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    Yabbut, you know just as well as I about who and what I'm talking about. These gangs all have names, they're all known. Yes, the gubmnt' is bad, but they don't live in my town, these friggin gangs do.

    Don't get me started about the NBPP. I'll rant for hours about how pissed off I am at Holder and the DOJ over them.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed​ lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin

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