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Thread: Kalifornistan is at it again!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuhr52 View Post
    Being as you are conservative why would you be offend if I have issues with liberals coming here or anywhere else spreading their ideology?
    Oh, I don't know, maybe because as much as I disagree with every liberal here or anywhere else on the planet, I recognize that this is still some bastardized version of America, and people still have the freedom to travel and settle anywhere they want to within her borders. It strikes me as wholly unjustifiable bigotry to hold ex-pats from CA responsible for the sins of your voters and legislators, even if every single one of those CA refugees were liberal, and did vote, which is quite obviously not the case.

    I'm glad I got out of CA. It's the first thing I did when I got out of the Army in '74, and after a brief return, left again for rural WA in '78. But I'm still a Californian, and making sweeping statements about the citizens of the state, as opposed to the powers that be that have wrecked it, sweeps me into the same bigoted dust-bin. So I said something about it.

    That said, I didn't say it to you, and I never said I was offended over you having issues with liberals moving to your already-liberal state, I just pointed out that it was, indeed, already liberal before the people you claim are now transplants who won power got there. The only thing I said I found offensive was to the person who I originally replied to, who was comparing American citizens who happen to be from CA to terrorists trying to create a global muslim caliphate. I asked you if you didn't think that was a ridiculously extreme juxtaposition. You chose to ignore that question and only answer the one I asked that you have no way to substantiate. Weird.

    So I'll ask again, do you think it's a ridiculous juxtaposition to compare Californians, even liberal ones, to muslims who invade societies all around the world in pursuit of a global islamic caliphate? Because that is precisely the idiotic meme that I originally replied to.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #12
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    Yes it's a ridiculous Juxtaposition to compare Californians to muslims who invade societies all around the world in pursuit of a global islamic caliphate.
    "You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who gets the credit" - Ronald Reagan

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    That said, I would like to point out that the person I originally responded to was comparing American citizens who happen to be from CA to terrorists moving all over the world in pursuit of a global Islamic caliphate. Rather an extreme juxtaposition don't you think fuhr?
    Actually I wasn't. Are you saying that Muslims are terrorists??? I said nothing about terrorism. Muslims regard non-Muslims as less-than-human, or at least a lower class of unenlightened human. Liberals feel the same way about conservatives. They seem to think we're all old rich white guys and racists.
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    Not all Democrats are like that, but most hard line liberals are. Ever notice that Obama surrounds himself with women and children while he is pushing for legislation? Well, everything but pro abortion stuff... IMHO most liberals are very closed minded and hateful. If you don't agree with them, you are wrong and don't deserve your portion of the Bill of Rights.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    .
    -
    Not all Democrats are like that, but most hard line liberals are.
    I beg to differ with you. Everyone who is a Democrat and votes the Democrat ticket is guilty of infant genocide, promotion of homosexual perversion, and every other hard line liberal supported abomination to God dominating our society. Be assured God will judge.
    It Is Appointed Onto Man Once To Die, And After That To Face Judgement

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Actually I wasn't. Are you saying that Muslims are terrorists???
    I think that muslims who invade foreign countries by the thousands or millions with the intention of subjugating them into slaves of the caliphate are terrorists, yes I do. You don't?

    However, comparing them to citizens of one of the United States who exercise their God-given freedom to move themselves and their families to another one of the United States in search of a better life is a ridiculous comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Muslims regard non-Muslims as less-than-human, or at least a lower class of unenlightened human.
    I know, and I consider islam as less than a real religion, so I guess we're even. Still, the specter of islamicists ruining countries is hardly analogous to citizens of America hashing out our political differences amongst ourselves. When we have particularly severe grievances between each other, we argue, call each other names, impugn each others' patriotism, write blogs, forum posts, letters to the editor and editorials about what a pain in the ass the other side is. When muslims have differences with the governments and/or people of the countries they're trying to subvert into the caliphate, trains and buses explode, planes fly into buildings, men's heads are separated from their shoulders, women are "honor killed" and genitally mutilated and on and on and on.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Liberals feel the same way about conservatives. They seem to think we're all old rich white guys and racists.
    And the way to defeat their idiocy is to deny them the right to live where they want? What ever happened to the old fashioned idea of defeating them in the arena of ideas? Nah, too much work. Let's just ban them from red states and treat them the same way we'd treat murderous invaders. Is this the new Patriot view of America? Because if it is, I'll have to find another word to describe myself, as I want nothing to do with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Not all Democrats are like that, but most hard line liberals are. Ever notice that Obama surrounds himself with women and children while he is pushing for legislation? Well, everything but pro abortion stuff...
    Well, if you're comparing Obama to muslims, that's a different story. If he's not actually a muslim, he is absolutely muslim-centric. I also have my doubts about his citizenship, and he's a far-left loon to boot. While I hope (and seriously doubt) that he never moves into my neighborhood, I would neither judge folks from IL or Kenya as ineligible to reside in my state because of Obama's ideology. There was another thread here recently that dealt with guilt by association, and I feel pretty much the same here as I did there, with one glaring exception: I am a member of the group some of y'all view as pariahs even though we left the state, and in at least as many cases as not, we left because CA's politics can't be squared with our own.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    IMHO most liberals are very closed minded and hateful.
    That's funny because I was thinking that y'all are about the same way towards Californians, even conservative ones who left for the specific purpose of trying to starve the beast. Alabama is more red because my wife and I are here. AZ is more red because Ringo and his wife are there, as well as DonL and others. Some very well-respected and Constitution-loving members of this forum were either born in CA and left, or lived there for awhile and then left. Broad brushes are rarely useful, but painting us more like caliphate hunters than American citizens is a bit over the top.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #16
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    I am not an idiot, and actually agree with everything you have posted. Here's a few word associations for you:
    Radical Muslim is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity, Hard line Liberal is to Democracy, or Right wing extremist is to Republicans.
    The pic I shared was truthful. Comparing Muslims to Liberals (Not terrorists to Liberals) is not that extreme.
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    I think the same problem exists with extremes in all corners of society.
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    I think that if they want to move to our country (legally) and practice their religion that is OK. I think the extremists should be singled out and persecuted the same way we have with the KKK. I think our immigration policy should still enforce the premise that if you want to come here it needs to be from a desire to be an American and adopt our way of life. We have no national religion (1st Amendment) so Muslim, Jew, Christian whatever is fine. Remember Cassius Clay? Mohammed Ali converted to Islam and never became a terrorist, as did several prominent figures back then. The religion is not the problem, the extremism is.
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    Lastly, I have no problem with Californians leaving because they are being persecuted. But just like other "immigrants" I would rather they arrive somewhere and try to adopt that areas ideology and way of life. You can't tell me that Colorado was always the bastion of gun-hating baby-killing liberals. It became that way somehow.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    I am not an idiot...
    And I haven't said or implied that you are. I've simply pointed out that a comparison you made is a ridiculous one.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    ...and actually agree with everything you have posted.
    You do? You may want to retract that before I'm done here.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Here's a few word associations for you:
    Who's treating whom like an idiot here? Grade school flash card word associations? No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    The pic I shared was truthful.
    To an extent, you are correct. It does expose some truth, but it does it quite by accident as far as I can tell. The reason muslims leave the places they're supposedly not "happy" has absolutely nothing to do with happiness, nor do the destinations they move to. They spread across the globe in furtherance of the global caliphate that the Qur'an commands them to pursue. The most truthful thing the author of that graphic said was at the end:

    "And then; They want to change those countries to be like...

    THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE [snip "unhappy"] LIVING UNDER A SHARIA-COMPLIANT AUTHORITARIAN REGIME!
    "

    That's what they're doing, is spreading a political system known as Sharia. They're not spreading religion, and certainly they're not umm...."happy" with individual, constitutionally-protected liberty. Look anywhere in the Western democracies that they've invaded in large numbers, like France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and see how Sharia-creep has set in.

    It's funny that you use the word "Kalifornistan" and express intolerance for American citizens with whom you have strong, though non-violent, disagreement, but express tolerance for the most insidious, intolerant, violent and anti-liberty group on the planet, islamicists. Maybe you've never heard of Dearborn, MI, commonly referred to by the more low-brow commentators as "Dearbornistan," where the city government enforces tenets of Sharia against Christians on a regular basis? Sharia creep is even spreading here, both on the streets and in our courts, albeit in the courts so far, the creep is minor. But the islamicists themselves are honest about their goals. They spew this anti-Constitution crap on mainstream media sources with stunning regularity:



    "The flag of islam will one day fly over the White House?" Some would say it already is, but regardless, you seem to have more antipathy for your fellow citizens than you have for those who would enslave or kill you in your own country.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Comparing Muslims to Liberals (Not terrorists to Liberals) is not that extreme.
    No, it really is.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    I think the same problem exists with extremes in all corners of society.
    I think accepting the language of the left to describe those whom you oppose is a big mistake. You do realize, don't you, that as a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter, you are an "extremist" to opponents of a full-breadth interpretation of the 2A? This is nothing new either. Back in the early/mid 60's people were calling conservatives extremists. The constant drum-beat is what prompted Barry Goldwater to utter the words during his acceptance speech for the Republican nomination for President in 1964:

    "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
    "

    My point is simple; islam is an extreme doctrine. The video of the imam above says exactly what I'm saying here - if you don't follow the dictates of the Qur'an, you are not practicing islam. That doctrine leaves no room for "moderate" muslims. One of those dictates is to spread Sharia globally via any means necessary, through the power of persuasion, or the persuasion of power, it matters not to them. And your graphic shows how and where that dictate is being implemented, except it doesn't include the US as the #1 prize in pursuit of the caliphate.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    I think that if they want to move to our country (legally) and practice their religion that is OK. I think the extremists should be singled out and persecuted the same way we have with the KKK. I think our immigration policy should still enforce the premise that if you want to come here it needs to be from a desire to be an American and adopt our way of life. We have no national religion (1st Amendment) so Muslim, Jew, Christian whatever is fine. Remember Cassius Clay? Mohammed Ali converted to Islam and never became a terrorist, as did several prominent figures back then. The religion is not the problem, the extremism is.
    I don't have objections to comparing islam to the KKK. It's an apt comparison, though the disparity in numbers between the Klan at even their height of membership is enormous compared to only a fraction of the most extreme adherents of islam. And you're right, we have no national religion, and even though I'm a Christian, I don't want or need one in this country. But we do have a national political doctrine called "The Constitution," and islam comes complete with its "founding principles" called "Sharia Law." Sharia and the Constitution cannot exist side-by-side. The imam above gets that. Why don't Americans believe what they themselves tell us?

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Lastly, I have no problem with Californians leaving because they are being persecuted. But just like other "immigrants" I would rather they arrive somewhere and try to adopt that areas ideology and way of life. You can't tell me that Colorado was always the bastion of gun-hating baby-killing liberals. It became that way somehow.
    Wow. So I'm an "immigrant" in my own country? That is a stunning revelation. All this time I thought I was free to move about the country regardless of my ideology, which does happen to comport with the area I moved to, but which if it didn't, I would be no less free to move there.

    And man, you're definitely right about how much Colorado has changed over the umm... centuries. And that goes right in line with religious freedoms too. From the Apache to the Arapaho to the Shoshone to the Cheyenne and Ute nations, persecution has certainly changed the societal and religious landscape there, hasn't it though? And pray tell, which extremists fomented those changes? And to this day, what do you suppose members of those nations/tribes think of the notion of "religious freedom?"

    Actually, now we're getting somewhere. Comparing American citizens whom you vehemently disagree with, but who are otherwise non-violent, law-abiding citizens, to so-called "moderate" muslims is like a soldier under the command of General George Custer in 1876 being compared by a Plains Indian to the Mennonite settlers tending their farms.

    I am not an immigrant. I wouldn't be an immigrant if I suddenly lost my freakin' mind and became a liberal. I am a free American with the wit and wherewithal to put up a fierce, but peaceful, challenge to any liberal who lacks the judgment to avoid taking me on in debate. It's called the arena of ideas. Islam doesn't care about that arena, it cares only about world-wide conquest, domination, enslavement, misogyny, female genital mutilation, killing in the name of "honor" and so on. And if you question the validity of any of those assertions, I suggest you watch this (very graphic) four-part series by Ann Barnhardt on islamic sexuality:

    Part 1
    Part 2
    Part 3
    Part 4

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Wow. So I'm an "immigrant" in my own country? That is a stunning revelation. All this time I thought I was free to move about the country regardless of my ideology, which does happen to comport with the area I moved to, but which if it didn't, I would be no less free to move there.
    Again, well spoken and I do agree with your post. To focus on the part where I used "immigrant", which was in quotations because I couldn't think of a better word and knew it was not exactly immigration, kind of blew it as your finale. An immigrant specifically refers to someone permanently leaving one country and settling in another, and in most cases changing citizenship. One reason people leave is political changes. People are leaving California for the same reason. Close resemblance so I used the word immigrant.
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    Those that come here and try to change our country into a likeness of their country is a problem, in whatever context you choose. Whether it be sharia law or "press one for English" I do not agree with it. You may have seen the meme that shows a football player (Tim Tebow) kneeling in prayer in one frame, and an entire NYC intersection closed down by Muslims facing mecca. The meme asks why is one a problem and the other is not. The difference I see in that example is not the religion being practiced, but the imposition of that religion on those of a different faith.
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    The problem is Political Correctness. There are no atheists protesting against Muslim activity, just Christianity. Why? It is not politically correct to be mean to Muslims. Or gays, or baby-killers. That type of thing trickles down from "leaders" and the lame stream media. That has to change. Watch this if you haven't seen it.
    ben carson prayer breakfast youtube - Bing Videos
    And just for clarification, I believe that political correctness is what is keeping us from culling the extremists from the rest (whatever their percentage) for fear of offending someone. Only reason I brought it up.

  10. #19
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    I agree with most of this post, but I have to comment on one thing you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Those that come here and try to change our country into a likeness of their country is a problem, in whatever context you choose. Whether it be sharia law or "press one for English" I do not agree with it. You may have seen the meme that shows a football player (Tim Tebow) kneeling in prayer in one frame, and an entire NYC intersection closed down by Muslims facing mecca. The meme asks why is one a problem and the other is not. The difference I see in that example is not the religion being practiced, but the imposition of that religion on those of a different faith.
    I have not seen whatever video you're referring to. I am confident that I understand what it likely was meant to demonstrate, but I could not disagree more with your conclusion about it.

    I agree that the difference is not the "religion" being practiced, but don't agree that Tebow's actions "impose" anything on anyone. His kneeling in prayer impedes no one's freedom of movement, whereas the islamicists you describe unquestionably does. And it's purposeful too. They could have moved to a sidewalk or somewhere off the traffic lanes, but they were hoping to get a rise from someone who would serve to give them propaganda value about being the "victims" of "hate crimes" or "hate speech" or whatever. If someone doesn't like seeing Tim Tebow praying, look away and mute your TV for those few seconds after a touchdown, or don't watch the religious programming that he appears as a guest on from time to time. No one has to watch or listen to a word he says, and no one has his religious observances "imposed" upon them. Quite another kettle of worms when someone has to choose between stopping their progress or running over a bunch of inconsiderate islamicists who purposely impede the progress of every driver on the road they're making a political statement on.

    Sorry. It's another ridiculous comparison. Tim Tebow has the unfettered, God-given right to practice his religious observances anywhere he likes with only one exception: His rights to those practices ends where others' rights begin. No one has the right to be protected from ever hearing or seeing religious observances, but everyone has the right to move about city streets without being impeded by any group, so-called "religious" groups included. Tebow practices his observances within the law. The islamicists you describe do not.

    Otherwise, I agree with your reply. And I am very familiar with Dr. Carson, but seriously doubt that he would agree with the conclusion you draw from the video you described above.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    These laws are null and void under the second amendment and per Maubary v Madison. screw them.
    Null and void makes no difference, the people will still deal with it if they don't fight back and grow a spine in that state.

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