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Thread: The Terrifying Future of The United States

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Here's a good start, I've got much more if needed.





    Scriptures showing that the Rapture is "PRE-Tribulation"


    [2Thess 2:1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    (The coming of our Lord Jesus, and our gathering together unto him is the rapture.)

    [2Thess 2:2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    ("The day of Christ is at hand" refers not to the rapture, but to the day of wrath, the seven years of tribulation. {Amos 5:18 below**The church of Thessalonia must have gotten a letter that said they were living in the tribulation--which is shaking and troubling news. They could not have thought that they were living in the rapture, or that it was "at hand" or "now" because the rapture happens suddenly, instantaneously. And if the report was that the rapture was "soon to come", that would not be shaking or troubling, but glorious and wonderful. The only option, for the verse to make sense, is that they thought that the rapture had passed, and that they were in the tribulation.)

    They were fearing this: [Dan 7:21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    What IS the "day of Christ" anyway, is it the rapture?

    [Amos 5:18] Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

    (This "day of the Lord" cannot be the rapture, because we look forward to the rapture. There are many other scriptures that say the same thing. The day of the Lord is tribulation, also known as the time of Jacob's trouble, Isreal's trouble, the days of Awe.)

    [2Thess 2:3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [tribulation--the day of Christ] shall not come, except there come a falling away [apostacy--or departure (some assume this means departure from the faith, but it can also mean departure from the earth, as in rapture)] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    (Now, if they were troubled that the rapture had passed, Paul is assuring the Church that they didn't miss anything, saying that that the tribulation that they feared is preceeded by several important key events: First, the rapture, which reveals the antichrist...)

    [2Thess 2:4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    (who doesn't even sit in the temple until 3.5 years into the tribulation... See Rev (which they didn't know at the time)-- But this is why this point, of the AntiChrist being revealed after the rapture--who goes on to sit in the temple, is proof that they hadn't missed the rapture. There is no antichrist revealed yet.)

    [2Thess 2:5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

    [2Thess 2:6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    (In other words, the Christians in Thessalonia couldn't have missed the rapture, because there is no AntiChrist sitting in the temple, claiming to be God, who has yet to be revealed. And that the AntiChrist is still being held back by their presence in the world--since the rapture reveals the antichrist as in verse 3.)

    [2Thess 2:7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    (Christians are the "He" who letteth will let and will be taken out of the way. That is, whatsoever we bound on earth will be bound in heaven. And once we are removed/raptured, then the AntiChrist will have the freedom to fulfill his plans. After all, the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church; (Mat 16:18), and the Church is not destined for wrath (verse))

    [2Thess 2:8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    [2Thess 2:9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    [2Thess 2:10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    [2Thess 2:11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    [2Thess 2:12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    [2Thess 2:13] But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    [2Thess 2:14] Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    [2Thess 2:15] Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

    [2Thess 2:16] Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

    [2Thess 2:17] Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

    Finally, yes, the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is accused of being a "comfort doctrine"... Well, it IS, the scripures even say so. It's consolation, hope, comforting for believers.

    To recap, and summarize by clarifying the verses with modern terminology:

    1 I beg you, by the Pre-Tribulation Rapture promise of Christ,
    2 That you don't worry if you "hear by letter" that you are in the 7 year Great Tribulation of God's wrath
    3 Don't be decieved. The Tribulation doesn't come until after the world wide events of the Great resurrection and rapture, which removes the righteous and leaves only those in rebellion and apostacy, which allows for the revealing of the AntiChrist,
    4 Who says he is God, and who will sit in the temple and declare claim to be God.
    5 Don't you remember this doctrine I told you already?
    6 And now you know why the AntiChrist is not yet revealed to the world
    7 Yes, the AntiChrist is working, but not fully, because you are still here, preventing his works by your prayers, until the rapture, when you will be taken out of the way.
    8 And then the AntiChrist will come out of hiding, and the Lord will destroy him.

    I can hear Paul thinking to himself... how could my diciples have been so easily misled, decived and troubled that they missed the rapture? And by a mere letter? It's a world-wide gospel-promoting supernatural event that no person could miss who was looking forward to it! They know it includes people rising from the dead, the last trump, and all the rest. I told them that in my first letter to them in Chapter 4, in fact, it was the only doctrinal teaching in my entire letter! Sheesh! I'd better make another journey back to Thessalonia to set these guys straight and reassure them, just in case my letter doesn't do it!

    Now, I'm not ignorant of the fact that post trib rapture believers interpret 2 Thess 2 in the opposite way,
    and use it to prove a post trib rapture... here's how they do it.

    [2Thess 2:1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

    (they say this is the rapture, correctly, but then say the next verse "day of Christ" refers to the rapture as well.)

    [2Thess 2:2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    (Obviously, the Post Tribulationists are afraid of the Rapture, because this is the only way that that verse makes any sense. Yes, fear of the Lord is a good thing, but you should not let it affect your theology to the point where you are praying for the Lord to not come until after 7 years of tribulation!.... Also, being a post tribulationist, if you disbelieve Christ's ability to cleanse you of sin, and believe you need further cleansing through tribulation, being a post trib believer, there is plenty of extra time to repent, 7 years, and/or simply stand up for Christ and accept a beheading to achieve "trib saint status", which may give one a full licence to sin all they want until that time, since the imminency of the rapture, which comes first, is removed. Perhaps the post tribulationists feel they deserve punishment for their sins, because they have a hard time accepting the free gift of salvation through Christ. I'm speculating that IF the post tribulationists really want to go through the tribulation, Christ may let them. After all, one may be able to disobey when the trumpet call goes out to "Come up here!")

    [2Thess 2:3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [rapture--which they fear] shall not come, except there come a falling away [they assume means "from the faith"--which, they say, includes false doctrine, such as pre-trib rapture teaching, which somehow leads one to worship Satan through complacency and laziness, but I've never seen how that is possible if one is truly focused on Christ and knows the Bible, since the Antichist cannot deceive the elect--so their fears of the AntiChrist's deception are also baseless (man, these post trib guys fear a lot... consider Rev which says the fearful have thier lot in Hell)] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    [2Thess 2:4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    [2Thess 2:5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

    [2Thess 2:6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    [2Thess 2:7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    (Since this further explanation of Christians being removed disproves what they are saying, they say the "he" is undefined, and may mean "Michael, the chief/arch angel, whose removal allows for the rising of the Antichrist, although there is no other scripture anywhere in the Bible to support this teaching, other than the fact that Michael is a strong and powerful Angel, able to aid the delivering of a message to Daniel.)

    [2Thess 2:8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    Now, as for mid trib or pre trib. If the rapture reveals the antichrist, is the antichrist revealed when he sits in the temple or earlier? Well, in Daniel, the antichrist is revealed when he acts in front of "many"

    [Dan 9:27.6] And he [antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [of years]: and in the midst of the week [of years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    And in Rev. he breaks the covenant 3.5 years into it when he sits in the temple and says he is God and receives power to make war against the saints, and make the mark of the beast mandatory.

    [Rev 13:5] And there was given unto him [antichrist] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;
    and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [3.5 years]
    [Rev 13:6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and
    his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

    And when does the antichrist reveive power to continue for 3.5 years?

    [Rev 11:7] And when they [the two witnesses] shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [antichrist/Satan Rev 9:11, 17:8, Rev 20:3] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    The antichrist receives power after he kills God's two witnesses who prophesy for the first half of the 7 year trib, 1260 days...

    [Rev 11:3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    I believe that Satan is cast down to earth at the time of the beginning of the 7 year tribulation, after all, the antichrist is revealed after/at the rapture, and I don't think the rapture would occur while Satan is still in Heaven--we Christians, who will judge angels, would slaughter him (and the Bible never describes a heavenly conflict between the raptured humans and Satan in Heaven), so, instead, the angels throw him out, just in time for our arrival in Heaven.

    [Rev 12:7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    [Rev 12:13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
    [Rev 12:6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. [3.5 years]
    [Rev 12:14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time [the other way to say 3.5 years], from the face of the serpent.

    In other words, Satan cannot make war against these saints (Isreal, the woman, and all who obey the commandments) for the first half of the 7 year tribulation, before he has any real power to do so, and while the woman is still being protected by God.

    So, therefore, since the antichrist is revealed at the 7 year covenant, and he will need the 3.5 years just to solidify his world political power as well, the rapture MUST take place prior to the confirmation of the 7 year covenant, which represents the 7 year tribulation, or final week of Daniel's prophesy, the 70th week:.

    [Dan 9:24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    [Dan 9:25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    Satan receives power just as God's wrath is being poured out in full, the last half of the 3.5 years of tribulation...

    Here are a few verses that show the rapture takes place *prior* to the wrath of the tribulation: (just in case the previous exposition was not enough to convince you). There are many more verses that talk about the rapture, but I'm only listing a few that show "PRE" tribulation below:

    [Isa 26:20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee:
    hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    [Isa 26:21] For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the
    earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

    [Isa 57:1] The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

    [Mal 3:16] Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD
    hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that
    feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
    [Mal 3:17] And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my
    jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

    [Pss 97:10] Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

    [Luke 21:36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    [1 Thessalonians 1:10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

    [1 Thessalonians 5:9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    [Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    [2Pet 2:9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

    [Rev 2:22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

    [Rev 3:10] Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

    [Revelation 4:1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

    [Rev 8:13] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth [those not raptured?] by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    [Rev 19:1] And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven [the raptured], saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

    Finally, read all of Psalm 27, which is supposed to be read daily, every day for 30 days, during the 30 day time period of repentance that come prior to the Feast of Trumpets, also known as 'the last trump' the 'day that no man knows but the father', the day that comes 'like a thief in the night', also known as the 'wedding of the messiah', --and the Church is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5)


    More!

    If you study the Feast of Trumpets, and the Jewish Wedding Ceremony, and compare with all the verses of the Rapture, you will see that they coincide, and show that the rapture is prior to the seven year tribulation, and will likely occur on the Feast of Trumpets, the first of the three Jewish festivals of the Fall, which have never been fulfilled, and all speak of Christ's second coming. The first 4 Jewish feasts have already been fulfilled when Christ came the first time and when he poured out the Holy Spirit on the Church at Pentecost. About 300 scriptures show the Rapture is connected with the Feast of Trumpets.
    Do you mock the pre-trib rapture, and demand to know where this promise is in the Bible?

    [2Pet 3:3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    [2Pet 3:4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


    [Rom 5:8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we
    were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [1John 1:8] If we say that we
    have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    [1John 1:9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive
    us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [Rom 10:9]
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
    believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
    shalt be saved. [Rom 10:10] For with the heart man believeth unto
    righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    [Mat 10:32] Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will
    I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
    Could you please be a little more precise?
    "Undocumented Second Amendment Supporter, fighting against suppression of mandatory background checks."

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  3. #12
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    Actually, all you have shown does not even come close to proving a solitary thing about the "rapture" at all in my opinion..... All it is that I can see is gross mis-interpretation.... But, to each there own... It is NOT a salvation issue at all other than it MIGHT cause a few to backslide and be lost because they think they still have time... (since the "rapture" didnt happen yet) so it doesnt really matter much either way who is right.


    So.. that brings up the following: WHY did I even bother bringing it up? I have no good answer , I cannot remember what exactly was on my mind that caused me to write about it last night and I am quite tired from work today........ I do however thank you for pointing out what you consider the answer to my question/remarks.

  4. How about He is coming and to be ready when He come, weather it be pre or post trib.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTwoShure View Post
    Could you please be a little more precise?
    ~ GOD HATES RELIGION ~

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Bill O’Reilly explained the problem as I see it a few weeks ago. He said if we are going to discuss (Argue) issues that are not politically correct such as homosexual marriages (G.A.Y. marriages [Going Against Yahweh]) and use RELIGION, the Word of my G_d, we lose in this secular society. He has a great point and one I am considering valid. I use in my correspondence with the hired help my Holy Book of the Bible, the Quran and 5,000 years of “Case Law” siting source, page and verse. It has yet to work.

    I write giving Barrack Hussein Obama, Hillary Klinton and Susan Rice claims that Islam is a great Religion. Islam condemns homosexuality; one noted Imam stated publicly that there is no such thing as a “gay” Muslim because to be a Muslim one must submit to the will of Allah and homosexuality is an abomination (as is abortion in Islam). So even this great religious referral add nothing to my arguments or at least as I have found from the replies.

    I also claim Judaism is a great religion as is Christianity; all of these great faiths condemn homosexuality.

    My representatives do not care. Society does not care and some churches now condone abominations. Using every single commentary, internet resources especially Strong’s and Greek and Hebrew lexicons I fail to convince anyone.

    Scoffers abound just in the days of Noah, they do not come and reason therefore I dust the dust from my sandals and love the sinner not the sin.
    We are losing our argument on all of our faith issues.
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTwoShure View Post

    My representatives do not care. Society does not care and some churches now condone abominations. Using every single commentary, internet resources especially Strong’s and Greek and Hebrew lexicons I fail to convince anyone.

    Scoffers abound just in the days of Noah, they do not come and reason therefore I dust the dust from my sandals and love the sinner not the sin.
    We are losing our argument on all of our faith issues.
    I don't lose any arguments when it comes to convincing anyone about faith issues. Why? Because I don't argue with them, I simply relate the Gospel. From that point it's all up to the Holy Spirit to convict them. The closer that we get to the End of this Age of Grace, the more resistant secular society will become to the Gospel. And, the #1 sign of this Last Generation and the Rapture is the Great Apostasy (falling away) within the churches, so don't get hoodwinked or depressed, instead rejoice in the fact that you are witnessing the truth of God's Word of prophecy being fulfilled. Sadly, the majority of the worlds present population will pretty much die as they have lived: hardened against God. That is why this judgment ( 7 years of Tribulation) will come. God's judgments are never haphazard, willy-nilly, or random. God is always very specific in the way He judges and when He judges. It is true that God is loving, He takes no pleasure in this. God is forgiving, but it is also true that God is righteous. Consequently, there must be a judgment. Yes, as in the days of Noah scoffers will abound. Knowing his time is short, your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour, therefor, be sober; be watchful, and keep looking up. Maranatha!



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  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I don't lose any arguments when it comes to convincing anyone about faith issues. Why? Because I don't argue with them, I simply relate the Gospel. From that point it's all up to the Holy Spirit to convict them. The closer that we get to the End of this Age of Grace, the more resistant secular society will become to the Gospel. And, the #1 sign of this Last Generation and the Rapture is the Great Apostasy (falling away) within the churches, so don't get hoodwinked or depressed, instead rejoice in the fact that you are witnessing the truth of God's Word of prophecy being fulfilled. Sadly, the majority of the worlds present population will pretty much die as they have lived: hardened against God. That is why this judgment ( 7 years of Tribulation) will come. God's judgments are never haphazard, willy-nilly, or random. God is always very specific in the way He judges and when He judges. It is true that God is loving, He takes no pleasure in this. God is forgiving, but it is also true that God is righteous. Consequently, there must be a judgment. Yes, as in the days of Noah scoffers will abound. Knowing his time is short, your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour, therefor, be sober; be watchful, and keep looking up. Maranatha!



    ~ Yesterdays Prophecies-Today Headlines ~
    Jesus wept.
    "Undocumented Second Amendment Supporter, fighting against suppression of mandatory background checks."

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTwoShure View Post
    Jesus wept.
    Yes, Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus. Your point?




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  11. #20
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    19 Very Disturbing Facts About Illegal Immigration That Every American Should Know






    Always count on Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities.
    ~ GOD HATES RELIGION ~

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