Holder: SYG laws "...contribute to more violence than they prevent." - Page 2
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Thread: Holder: SYG laws "...contribute to more violence than they prevent."

  1. #11
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    SYG has not increased violence.


    It just helps make sure the "victim" of violence is the would be criminal.



    (hmmm, I think that might make a good sig.)
    Never argue with a red-haired witch. It wastes your breath and only delays the inevitable. --the collected sayings of Wiz Zumwalt

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  3. #12
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    Come the f**k on my grounds and see if I don't stand. Without a valid warrant issued within the county I live in. NOT some obscure court in DC. There is justifiable SYG and massive escalation will happen without my local Sheriff and lawyer present.
    +
    I would add that that without PC, the FED's are stalking. Something there're Laws against.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  4. #13
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    Stand your ground had nothing to do with this case. This incident was about self defense. Holder and Obama aren't interested in the facts of the case only the politics to be generated. As has been stated this takes some of the heat off of the other scandals rocking this administration. If not for Fox News these scandals would be off the radar. Obama must show support for the people that helped get him in office. Like Sharpton and Jackson. They demand action and don't care about the rule of law.
    "You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who gets the credit" - Ronald Reagan

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    SYG has not increased violence.


    It just helps make sure the "victim" of violence is the would be criminal.



    (hmmm, I think that might make a good sig.)
    If any thing, it may have reduced it. Criminals don't attack people who they think are armed and would fight back.
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    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

  6. #15
    ezkl2230 Guest
    I posted the following to my blog (The Construction Zone) today:

    "Concept" or God-Given Right?

    "It's time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense..."

    These words were spoken by USAG Eric Holder during his address to the NAACP following the George Zimmerman verdict, and they vividly illustrate the mindset to which the leaders of the Danbury Baptists referred in their letter to then-President Thomas Jefferson:

    "...and such had been our laws and usages, and such still are; that religion is considered as the first object of legislation; and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the state) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights; and these favors we receive at the expense of such degrading acknowledgements as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore; if those who seek after power and gain under the pretense of government and religion should reproach their fellow men--should reproach their order magistrate, as a enemy of religion, law, and good order..."
    In the views of such people, we have no inalienable rights; we have privileges that have been granted by a magnanimous government - privileges that are as easily taken away as given. And as was acknowledged by the leaders of the Danbury Baptists, such a view is inconsistent with our status as FREEMEN.

    Mr. Holder needs to reacquaint himself with the Bill of Rights. Its name is exactly what it seems to be, a list of rights - HUMAN RIGHTS - granted as inalienable rights by the God who created us in His image. The Second Amendment of the Constitution, as delineated by the Bill of Rights, provides for our defense against a government that has escaped the chains of the Constitution.

    Frederic Bastiat, in his manuscript, The Law (Copyright 2007 by the Ludwig von Mises Institute), explains it this way:

    "It is not because men have made laws, that personality, liberty, and property exist. On the contrary, it is because personality, liberty, and property exist beforehand, that men make laws. What, then, is law? As I have said elsewhere, it is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.

    Nature, or rather God, has bestowed upon every one of us the right to defend his person, his liberty, and his property, since these are the three constituent or preserving elements of life; elements, each of which is rendered complete by the others, and that cannot be understood without them. For what are our faculties, but the extension of our personality? and what is property, but an extension of our faculties?

    If every man has the right of defending, even by force, his person, his liberty, and his property, a number of men have the right to combine together to extend, to organize a common force to provide regularly for this defense.
    Collective right, then, has its principle, its reason for existing, its lawfulness, in individual right..."
    Collective rights are the corporate expression of God-given individual rights. And as they are God-given, they reflect the very nature of God. This is of the utmost importance, because, in reflecting the unchangeable nature of God (Malachi 3:6, "For I the Lord do not change..."), the rights themselves are also unchangeable - inalienable. If, then, we collectively have the right to defend ourselves from our own government (as guaranteed by the Second Amendment), it follows that we have the individual right to defend ourselves from other individuals as well.

    Self-defense, then, is not a concept. It is a God-given, inalienable right granted to us as the image bearers of God by virtue of the fact that we are created in His image. In numerous verses throughout the scriptures, God tells us that He will defend His name and His character. God has the right to His own defense; as image bearers, we share that right.

    The right to self-defense is one of the foundational principles upon which our country was founded. It is one of the chief differentiating factors that separates American law, with its protection of the rights of the individual, from British common law, which subjugates the rights of the individual to the rights and claims of the crown. It is common law that delineates the so-called duty to retreat. It is American law that upholds the right of the individual to stand his or her ground when they are where they have a legal right to be and they are committing no crime.

    Concept? No.

    Inalienable, God-given RIGHT.

  7. May I say, "Eric Holder is a complete dumbass" here?

    No, really. I mean it!

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1derbike View Post
    May I say, "Eric Holder is a complete dumbass" here?

    No, really. I mean it!
    Well I'd have to disagree with you on that. He is nowhere near complete. He is missing a few grey cells.
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  9. #18

    Wink Survival of the fittest.

    This is a very simplistic view of self-defense, but I feel it is applicable.
    ~
    As we are animals (h0m0-sapiens by species) and animal survival is determined by "survival of the fittest". It really doesn't have anything to do with legal restrictions on our right to protect ourselves from grave harm or death at the hands of another of our species (another human). To me it is simple common sense survival to defend ones self against any attack on my person by what ever means are at my disposal. We should have all learned this at a very young age but have been condition by society that brute force as a rebuttal for brute force against us is immoral and not proper.
    ~
    Short story: Just prior to starting high school my father took me into the basement and told me that I needed to show him what I knew about fighting. He was a boxer and a graduate of the school of hard knocks (with honors) and had taught both my brother and my self not to step back from any fight, so.
    He told me that I would not be allowed out of the basement until I could get by him.
    When he returned from the hospital with a broken collar bone. He asked me why I had picked up the 2x4 and hit him with it.
    To me it was simple he was bigger than me and I didn't really want to get hurt, not by him, even by accident.
    End of story and end of my self-defense lessons from Dad, love the man.
    I'd rather be a Conservative Nutjob. Than a Liberal with NO Nuts & NO Job

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fuhr52 View Post
    Stand your ground had nothing to do with this case. This incident was about self defense. Holder and Obama aren't interested in the facts of the case only the politics to be generated. As has been stated this takes some of the heat off of the other scandals rocking this administration. If not for Fox News these scandals would be off the radar. Obama must show support for the people that helped get him in office. Like Sharpton and Jackson. They demand action and don't care about the rule of law.
    It wasn't even about self-defense, He was tried for murder. Under Florida statutes, to prove murder they had to prove he left the truck with the intent to kill TM. They didn't prove that and he was declared Not Guilty of Murder If he had been charged and tried for Manslaughter, then SD would have been an issue. The jury didn't consider Manslaughter charges because the trial evidence and charges had all been for the murder charge. They did the right thing. Florida tried GZ for murder and he had not committed murder. This trial had absolutely nothing to do with the issue of self defense. It establishes no precedence for future SD cases.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher,Independent Voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    It wasn't even about self-defense, He was tried for murder. Under Florida statutes, to prove murder they had to prove he left the truck with the intent to kill TM. They didn't prove that and he was declared Not Guilty of Murder If he had been charged and tried for Manslaughter, then SD would have been an issue. The jury didn't consider Manslaughter charges because the trial evidence and charges had all been for the murder charge. They did the right thing. Florida tried GZ for murder and he had not committed murder. This trial had absolutely nothing to do with the issue of self defense. It establishes no precedence for future SD cases.
    As a member who has sat on murder trials in Florida, I'll tell you you are wrong. A Murder trial also includes the lessor charge of Manslaughter. When a jury gets their instructions before deliberating, this is part of the instructions. The jury can find a person guilty of Murder, guilty of the lessor included charge of Manslaughter, or not guilty. SD is the part that is what brings on the reasonable doubt. The state did not think they could win on a 1st degree Murder charge so the prosecutor never went to a Grand Jury. They chose the lessor charge of 2nd degree Murder but did not win on that or the even lessor charge of Manslaughter. And the reason the jury found him not guilty is exactly because GZ was defending himself from TM per the evidence presented by the prosecution. In other words, it was self defense under Florida law.
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