Sheriff's team seizing guns from thousands in Illinois - Page 10
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 109

Thread: Sheriff's team seizing guns from thousands in Illinois

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    7,733
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    After the word "except" above, the subsequent text is speaking only of court proceedings. Before the word "except," "board, commission, or other lawful authority" are options to using a court. It's called an exception to the rule, thus the word except.
    .


    Leave out all the commas and words that modify the meaning of "adjudicated," and you're absolutely right. Include 'em though, and you're absolutely wrong.

    Besides, your definition is wrong to begin with. To wit:



    Under the NICS law, the "judicial procedure" that #1 refers to can be constructed under the auspices of a court (the only right way under the Constitution), commission, board,or other lawful authority.

    #2 proves my point - "The principal adjudicated our quarrel," not a court.

    #3 proves it too - "To act as a judge," not necessary to be a sworn, constitutional judge of the law.

    Nowhere in the dictionary definition of the word "adjudicate" or "adjudicated" is the word "court" found.





    Then next time don't hit "Reply With Quote" with my post being the one quoted when you reply.

    NICS is federal law. It overrides your oh-so-Constitution-compliant NYS law. Under NICS, someone can be deemed mentally deficient to own a firearm by any court, commission, board,or other lawful authority, and "lawful authority" is not defined as to how it becomes such anywhere within the "Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act" that NICS is an integral part of.

    Prior to the NICS revisions of 2007 that the N R A shilled for, only a court was authorized to disarm citizens. The "commission, board,or other lawful authority" language was added in those 2007 revisions. Your NYS laws have nothing to with it.

    Blues
    Not talking about NYS law. Talking about federal law and the powers of the sheriff in Chicago, the original subject. EVERY state in this country has provision to disarm persons not suitable to own a firearm, as does federal law (below). But NICS doesn't disarm anyone as you state above. They merely deny the sale.
    .
    Regarding adjudication, use the legal definition, not Webster or some other source. A judge doesn't refer to a copy of Websters for definitions. In legal terms the definitive source is Black's. And according to Black's and established through case law, adjudicate means "To settle in the exercise of judicial authority. To determine finally. Synonymous with adjudge in its strictest sense. United States v. Irwin, 127 U. S. 125, 8 Sup. Ct. 1033, 32 L. Ed. 99; Street v. Benner. 20 Fla. 700; Sans v. New York, 31 Misc. Rep. 559, 04 N. Y. Supp. 081." And as used in this legal definition judicial authority is defined as "the term given to the power given to a judge that allows him to hear a case and to decide in favor of one party."
    .
    Read SEC 101 a little more closely and you'll see that these other authorities aren't able to adjudicate anything, The law deals with the reporting of matters already adjudicated, not the adjudication itself. Called an attorney this morning to make sure I understand this correctly. He explained that under federal law NO ONE but a court of jurisdiction may adjudicate anything. A mediator can only act as such with the consent of the parties. To do otherwise is a violation of the fourth. No one may be denied the right to petition a higher court. Once there is a finding an agency may then reported the adjudication, but not until.
    .
    You need to refer to 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code for a deeper understanding. Federal law (18 U.S.C. § 922[g][1-9]) prohibits certain individuals from possessing firearms, ammunition, or explosives. This federal law is EXACTLY the same wording as NYS penal law. Further, 18 U.S.C. 3565(b)(2) (probation) and 3583(g)(2) (supervised release) makes it mandatory for the Court to revoke supervision for possession of a firearm. Specifically, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1-9) prohibits the following from possessing, shipping/ transporting, or receiving any firearm or ammunition:
    (1) a person convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;
    (2) a person who is a fugitive from justice;
    (3) a person who is an unlawful user of or who is addicted to a controlled substance;
    (4) a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been admitted to a mental institution;
    (5) an alien who is unlawfully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
    (6) a person who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
    (7) a person who, having been a citizen of the United States, renounces his citizenship;
    (8) a person subject to a court order that was issued after a hearing in which the person participated, which order restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or partner’s child, and which order includes a finding that the person is a credible threat to such partner or partner’s child, or by its terms prohibits the use, attempted use or threatened use of such force against such partner or partner’s child;
    (9) a person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
    .
    Each of the above enumerated paragraphs constitute an adjudication by a judge.
    .
    1. A conviction is adjudicated by a judge.
    2. A person is a fugitive from justice when they fail to answer a charge, such charge based on a warrant from a judge.
    3. A person is not an unlawful user of a drug until he is adjudicated such by a court. Anything else is merely an accusation.
    4. ----
    5. An illegal alien is actually illegal only when a judicial finding exists. Anything else is merely an accusation.
    6. Those with dishonorable discharges have been adjudicated by military proceeding.
    7. ----
    8. A person subject to a court order, adjudicated by a judge.
    9. A person convicted of domestic violence, adjudicated by a judge.
    .
    Does that large font size mean you're yelling at me? "Replying" to a post does not necessarily constitute an answer. It constitutes an opinion. Take it easy on me buddy.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  2.   
  3. #92
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Elma NY
    Posts
    1,638
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    While you're definitely right about this disturbing trend you can still loan your shotgun to someone. Shotguns are not registered and one not need a license or permit of any kind to shoot. Take a peek at S265.20 of the penal law. It exempts hunters and sport shooters from criminal charges of any kind... unless of course they cap the guy next to them in the ass.
    I resepectfully disagree:
    http://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2.../265-11(1).pdf
    Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminal Sale of a Firearm in the Third Degree when that person is not authorized pursuant to law to possess a firearm and he or she knowingly
    and unlawfully sells, exchanges, gives or disposes of a firearm to another person.
    Under the NY SAFE Act they are unauthorized unless a background check is completed.
    Tolerance of the intolerant leads to the destruction of tolerance. “You are also reminded that any inappropriate remarks or jokes concerning security may result in your arrest,” in the land of the free.

  4. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    7,733
    Quote Originally Posted by golocx4 View Post
    I resepectfully disagree:
    http://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2.../265-11(1).pdf
    Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminal Sale of a Firearm in the Third Degree when that person is not authorized pursuant to law to possess a firearm and he or she knowingly
    and unlawfully sells, exchanges, gives or disposes of a firearm to another person.
    Under the NY SAFE Act they are unauthorized unless a background check is completed.
    Those are pattern jury instructions. Perhaps I should have been clearer. You can loan your shotgun or rifle to another person but not to a person adjudicated "not suitable," or not to anyone if you're designated "not suitable." The SAFE Act is a little confusing. This will shed some light on the topic. You are correct that the definition of "dispose of" a weapon includes loaning a weapon to another. So yes, knowingly disposing of the weapon to a bug is illegal. And it is also illegal for a bug to dispose of a firearm to any person. A person who loans a weapon to a person s/he knows to be "not suitable" has committed...
    .
    S 265.17 Criminal purchase or disposal of a weapon.
    .
    A person is guilty of criminal purchase or disposal of a weapon when:
    3. Knowing that another person is prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, rifle or shotgun because of a prior conviction or because of some other disability which would render him or her ineligible to lawfully possess a firearm, rifle or shotgun in this state, a person disposes of a firearm, rifle or shotgun to such other person. Criminal purchase or disposal of a weapon is a class D Felony.
    .
    --------------------------
    .
    The jury instructions you referenced are for a case whereby the person selling the gun was the bug. He may not sell it, he must turn-it in to authorities. This is limited to a person who has been adjudicated by a court as "not suitable" to posses a weapon who still possesses the weapon. See 265.11 below.
    .
    S 265.11 Criminal sale of a firearm in the third degree.
    A person is guilty of criminal sale of a firearm in the third degree when such person is not authorized pursuant to law to possess a firearm and such person unlawfully either:
    (1) sells, exchanges, gives or disposes of a firearm or large capacity ammunition feeding device to another person. Criminal sale of a firearm in the third degree is a class D felony.
    .
    --------------------------
    .
    S 265.00 Definitions - NOT SUITABLE
    .
    16. "Certified not suitable to possess a self-defense spray device, a rifle or shotgun" means that the director or physician in charge of any hospital or institution for mental illness, public or private, has certified to the superintendent of state police or to any organized police department of a county, city, town or village of this state, that a person who has been judicially adjudicated incompetent, or who has been confined to such institution for mental illness pursuant to judicial authority, is not suitable to possess a self-defense spray device, as defined in section 265.20 of this article, or a rifle or shotgun.
    .
    S 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
    .
    A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
    (4) He possesses a rifle, shotgun, antique firearm, black powder rifle, black powder shotgun, or any muzzle-loading firearm, and has been convicted of a felony or serious offense; or
    (5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States; or
    (6) He is a person who has been certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, as defined in subdivision sixteen of section 265.00 (SEE ABOVE DEFINITION), and refuses to yield possession of such rifle or shotgun upon the demand of a police officer.
    .
    --------------------------
    .
    Persons adjudicated not suitable may request a certificate of good conduct (under Section 703-B of the NYS Corrections Law) thereby allowing them to own a firearm. See S265.20 Exemptions. I was unable to find any provision that requires a background check to loan a weapon. If you have any info on that it would be great. This damn SAFE Act is even confusing attorneys.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #94
    Way to go Illinois Sheriffs!

    Go through those adjudications with a fine tooth comb and grab every gun you can find that doesn't belong out there. And make sure in the process to put the ones that are violating parole and other niceties back in jail where they belong.

  6. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    An Alternate Reality, I Assure You...
    Posts
    5,115
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Where do I even begin. Absurd response. There is no such thing as a hypothetical situation. You can't create a fictitious set of circumstances to make a point. People don't go to jail for using deadly force to stop the rape of their wife in their own home. Find me a legit case not nonsense. And remember, experience is the greatest teacher. Plenty of people tell me how I should think. But they haven't viewed the body of a nine-year-old, dead, a bloody mess on an emergency room gurney. You know one eye was open and one closed? I couldn't close it. Do you know that when a little child is stabbed in the chest the knife actually comes out through their back. Their little bodies are smaller than the knife. Can't get those visions out of my head no matter how much time passes. And no amount of therapy changes that fact.

    You people have zero understanding of this issue. Too much TV. Well, you don't turn-off the TV and go to bed. You live everyday with the damage.
    BC, I know you have gone through the terrible experience of losing a child. I can not relate to this and I know you don't need any sympathy. My hypothetical wasn't necessarily made up for a point... it was just a hypothetical and I wanted your opinion. You don't need to remind me that experience is the greatest teacher, BC. I've experienced my share of horrible things. While in Afghan I had volunteered at Bagram AF hospital... I needed to do the opposite of what I had been doing, help people live. One day, we had an incoming from one of the villages near by. It was three children who had been near ISAF troops when an IED exploded. They were mangled, bloody, burnt and gasping for air... I helped wheel them to the docs from the Blackhawk, I don't think they all made it to the building, BC. After the kids were taken beyond those doors... I never saw them again... except in my nightmares. I know this doesn't relate to U.S. law and has nothing to do with your loss, I'm just sharing that I know how terrible it is to see mutilated children.

    You seem to be a little heated here, BC. Cool down, nobody is trying to offend you... and truthfully, nobody is trying to tell you how to think or feel. We're just discussing this topic, I don't think insults are warranted. Perhaps there are others here who've experienced terrible things too, that they're not sharing... that may influence their thinking.

    Cheers, BC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

  7. #96
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    7,733
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnerbob View Post
    BC, I know you have gone through the terrible experience of losing a child. I can not relate to this and I know you don't need any sympathy. My hypothetical wasn't necessarily made up for a point... it was just a hypothetical and I wanted your opinion. You don't need to remind me that experience is the greatest teacher, BC. I've experienced my share of horrible things. While in Afghan I had volunteered at Bagram AF hospital... I needed to do the opposite of what I had been doing, help people live. One day, we had an incoming from one of the villages near by. It was three children who had been near ISAF troops when an IED exploded. They were mangled, bloody, burnt and gasping for air... I helped wheel them to the docs from the Blackhawk, I don't think they all made it to the building, BC. After the kids were taken beyond those doors... I never saw them again... except in my nightmares. I know this doesn't relate to U.S. law and has nothing to do with your loss, I'm just sharing that I know how terrible it is to see mutilated children.

    You seem to be a little heated here, BC. Cool down, nobody is trying to offend you... and truthfully, nobody is trying to tell you how to think or feel. We're just discussing this topic, I don't think insults are warranted. Perhaps there are others here who've experienced terrible things too, that they're not sharing... that may influence their thinking.

    Cheers, BC.
    Didn't mean to sound heated. You are among the posters I respect most and your opinion is always most welcome. I feel bad for you regarding the incident you witnessed. It's hard to get those images out of your head. You live with them. I suspect someday when your much older it will still be vivid in your mind. These things have a tendency to stay with us for life.
    .
    respectfully,
    BC
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #97
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    An Alternate Reality, I Assure You...
    Posts
    5,115
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Didn't mean to sound heated. You are among the posters I respect most and your opinion is always most welcome. I feel bad for you regarding the incident you witnessed. It's hard to get those images out of your head. You live with them. I suspect someday when your much older it will still be vivid in your mind. These things have a tendency to stay with us for life.
    .
    respectfully,
    BC
    I suspect, BC... that I will be in Afghanistan everyday, for the rest of my life. I appreciate the respect and return it ten fold.

    Cheers
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

  9. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    An Alternate Reality, I Assure You...
    Posts
    5,115
    Quote Originally Posted by kwimby View Post
    Separate your guns from your emotions and you won't need any "oaths."
    Uhh... what? Not sure what you've done but I actually took my oath seriously... and it had nothing to do with guns. Liberty must annoy the sh!t out of you... freedom hurts for you, huh? I can't figure out why you troll this forum so much... loser.

    Bwhahaha!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

  10. #99
    Memo to administrators. I have a suggestion. We have a like button, can we have a hate button too? I just reread this thread and I think it could cut down the number of posts. I could just punch the hate button and then I don't have to post a response to something I have already answered.
    Typos are for the entertainment of the reader. Don't let it go to your head!

  11. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sepra Peratus/Arkansas
    Posts
    1,638
    Quote Originally Posted by farsidefan1 View Post
    Memo to administrators. I have a suggestion. We have a like button, can we have a hate button too? I just reread this thread and I think it could cut down the number of posts. I could just punch the hate button and then I don't have to post a response to something I have already answered.
    How about a "BS" button!
    ~Responsible people who understand that their personal protection is up to them, provide themselves with protection. Those that don't have only themselves to blame.~Proud NRA ~SAF~GoA Member~

Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast