Sheriff's team seizing guns from thousands in Illinois - Page 6
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Thread: Sheriff's team seizing guns from thousands in Illinois

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Nowhere was it documented how the Sheriff's team was going about identifying violators, nor did it say how a person came to be deemed a violator in the first place. The fact is, a County Commission can, on its own authority, create some undefined "legal authority" that does not involve a court in any way, but which, according to NICS, is still a "legal authority" that can deem someone mentally unfit to own a firearm.
    Sounds like a GREAT idea. Put decision-making authority at the lowest practical level. It's a tried and true management concept too many have become blinded to these days. Courts have no business in this issue at all. The law exists and stands on it's own just fine as it is -needs only better enforcement at the lower levels where people actually have a clue what is going on in their streets. Perhaps you prefer to continue expanding our litigious society, already overburdened with frivolous lawsuits?
    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    Since when did it become the police's job to stop all crime before it happens?
    Probably about the same time fools successfully argue absolute extremes. Cite: The Economic Collapse, and that lot of fools. Which part of law enforcement don't you understand? Law, or enforcement? Law enforcement is taking place all the time regardless of whether or not any are being broken.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    This fits in perfectly with the liberal/communist agenda. After taking guns from felons and those they conceive to be memtally ill, they can turn their attention to combat veterans. We're....gasp!...trained killers and have the propensity to do so again. They call us "murderers" at our coming home ceremonies, why not just be completely true to themselves and come out with it on TV?
    Last I checked we're a volunteer" army. Just don't volunteer and you won't be a combat vet. My friends son wants to join the military. Has to be the most stupid thing a young man can do in these ungrateful and uncertain times.
    .
    We all know there are people out there who are as nuts as a junkyard dog. Their diagnosis is correct. They're bipolar, psychotic or sociopathic. When you give them a gun you have Adam Lanza or James Homes. Want more movie theater and school shootings... give guns to bugs and you'll have them. Some people believe if someone is dangerous they should be locked up. But it doesn't work that way. Dangerous criminals are released everyday. And I'm not giving them a gun just because they "paid their debt" to society. They didn't owe society anything... they owed it to their victim. Shall we legally arm street gangs and bangers just because they're not presently incarcerated? Of course not. Give me anything to put them back in a cage.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    What if certain crimes would cause forfeiture of the right to vote or bear arms? What if the population is notified; commit a certain type of violent or person-on-person crime you will lose your right to bear arms for life. Now they commit the crime with full knowledge of the consequences. They've made a choice to revoke their own rights.
    What does any of that have to do with IL's FOID system? It's registration, plain and simple, and is only in place so that sweeps like the one being discussed in this thread can be implemented sans the due process that all citizens are entitled to. Otherwise, good, clean police work and application of due process would be what authorized confiscations from people who committed crimes and were found guilty by a jury of their peers, not by some arbitrary and ambiguous "lawful authority" as-described in the NICS law I cited. Unless all of these confiscations are from people convicted of felonies, then the sheriff is using the NICS sections regarding mental competence. It doesn't make sense to me that the people having their weapons seized are due to felony convictions though, because just their arrest and charge would initiate an FOID revocation. Certainly their conviction would, right? So the only thing that makes sense to me is that they're using that unconstitutional, purposely vague "lawful authority" within NICS to deem people "mental defectives."

    Some of you guys seem to think that if a person with a badge says its for the community's own good, then it's legal, and should be supported. How anyone can view this country in such a Pollyanna light these days is beyond me.

    There are constitutional provisions for the taking of property and/or liberties under the rubric of due process. Some sheriff deciding on his own volition to go out making sweeps without making public the circumstances that led to the already-unconstitutional FOID system "violation" doesn't fit within those provisions.

    I asked snatale42 for documentation of how the people being pursued were being included on the list the sheriff was working from. He gave a line written by a reporter giving his/her take on what was happening. In other words, nothing in the way of documenting the basis upon which the sheriff is relying to exert his authority. I'd be open to learning that my suspicions about how the list is being compiled is mistaken, but so far, no one has offered any documentation, but they've tripped all over themselves to relieve the sheriff of having to account for his/her actions. I don't get it.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    I asked snatale42 for documentation of how the people being pursued were being included on the list the sheriff was working from.
    People by the name of Snowden and Manning have been known to provide such information. Maybe we can get another leaker to provide some intel....

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by snatale42 View Post
    Our founding fathers gave us the Second Amendment, not God.
    Do the following words have any bearing on the meaning of Who the source of our constitutional rights are for you?

    We hold these truths to be self-evident:
    That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
    Are you seriously suggesting that 11 years hence of those words sparking a revolution of independence, that the Bill of Rights were written and ratified into the law of the land, and that the Framers went from believing those rights derived from God to believing they derived from themselves?

    It would seem that the first requirement of discussing our founding documents would be a basic understanding of Who the source of them was credited to be by the men who wrote and signed onto them.

    Whether you refer to them as "natural rights" or God-given rights, their source is something higher than man. Your lack of understanding in this regard explains succinctly why you have no problem with a sheriff overriding the natural rights of citizens as-described in the 2nd Amendment.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Last I checked we're a volunteer" army. Just don't volunteer and you won't be a combat vet. My friends son wants to join the military. Has to be the most stupid thing a young man can do in these ungrateful and uncertain times.
    .
    We all know there are people out there who are as nuts as a junkyard dog. Their diagnosis is correct. They're bipolar, psychotic or sociopathic. When you give them a gun you have Adam Lanza or James Homes. Want more movie theater and school shootings... give guns to bugs and you'll have them. Some people believe if someone is dangerous they should be locked up. But it doesn't work that way. Dangerous criminals are released everyday. And I'm not giving them a gun just because they "paid their debt" to society. They didn't owe society anything... they owed it to their victim. Shall we legally arm street gangs and bangers just because they're not presently incarcerated? Of course not. Give me anything to put them back in a cage.
    I wasn't saying that there aren't diagnosed and adjucated nutcases out there, I am talking about the agenda they have and will continue to carry out, which is making up new mental illnesses for things like patriotism, distrust and poverty. Just because a veteran has low income and bills left to pay does not make him dangerous. They've already attached a diagnosis to what 75% of the world has to live in, but the diagnosis only applies to us veterans.

    As for your friend's son...don't discourage one who would knowingly sacrifice his life for freedom. We already have enough of those and they're dragging this nation into the shitter.

    FWIW, I was once one of those "bangers" you harp on. I paid my debt and am now a functioning member of society. I teach kids self defense, volunteer at head start, volunteer a few hours a week in a halfway house for mentally incapable adults, coach little league and youth soccer and haven't committed a crime in a loooooong time. Because of something I did when I was a kid with no parental guidance, do you think I should have be thrown back in a cage?

  8. #57
    So. Anybody still think known felons and the mentally impaired shouldn't have their firearms confiscated ASAP?

    Please confine you answer to the question.

    We are not talking about Gawd, founding fathers or moving the goalposts here.

  9. #58
    The whole scenario just may be a glimpse into the future. Far as I'm concerned, FOID cards (and carry permits, for that matter) are un-Constitutional. Now, we see how FOID cards (registration) can be used (confiscation). I don't care for the picture, myself.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwimby View Post
    So. Anybody still think known felons and the mentally impaired shouldn't have their firearms confiscated ASAP?

    Please confine you answer to the question.

    We are not talking about Gawd, founding fathers or moving the goalposts here.
    Bluhbluhbluh bluhbluhbluh! When a person is found guilty of a felony or adjucated to be mentally ill, that is the time to exercise a warrant (if probable cause applies) and search the psycho felon's home for firearms. If they acquire a firearm afterwards, that is another crime, independent of the original. What they are doing is a violation of the 5th amendment. Paranoid raiding, which is just what it is since it is just raiding based on an unproven opinion, is another excuse to trample rights. They had to give up their restrictive laws as ordered by the supreme court, and are now showing off how tough they are. It's a power play. Corrupt Chicago normalcy.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwimby View Post
    So. Anybody still think known felons and the mentally impaired shouldn't have their firearms confiscated ASAP?

    Please confine you answer to the question.

    We are not talking about Gawd, founding fathers or moving the goalposts here.
    Yes, because those who are "mentally impaired" is subject to abuse and can not even be gotten right in 50% of the cases or non-cases. It is always better to err on the side of those defined than it is to side with those who define.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
    NRA Certified RSO
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

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