Arming On-duty Service Members
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Thread: Arming On-duty Service Members

  1. #1

    Arming On-duty Service Members

    For quite some time there have been discussions about allowing on-duty military personnel to be armed. With the Commandant of the Marine Corps pushing for it, maybe it will become a reality.


    Commandant of United States Marine Corps Calls For Arming All On Duty Marines At All Times


    Gen. James Amos, Commandant of the United States Marine Corps, in a recent presentation called for several changes to institutional policies for the USMC.

    Among those, arming all on duty marines, all the time.

    This would be a departure from the current protocols followed by all of the military branches which limits access to firearms to most service men and women while they are on duty unless firearms are part of performing their duty, such as for military police officers.

    The Commandant’s presentation came about a week after numerous people were killed by a lone gunman at the Washington DC Navy Yard. It is unknown if the Navy Yard incident prompted the suggestion.

    The arming of on duty marines was just one of several suggestions made by the Commandant according to Military Times,

    Amos’ presentation to general officers came six months after Officer Candidates School at Quantico was put on lockdown late March 21 following an apparent murder-suicide. Marine officials said Sgt. Eusebio Lopez, 25, shot and killed Cpl. Jacob Wooley, 23, and Lance Cpl. Sara Castro Mata, 19, before turning his gun on himself. All three Marines were staff members at the school, considered a revered proving ground for prospective Marine officers.

    The plan stretches well beyond improving safety, however. Amos’ briefing slides say that while the Corps has been successful fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, “we are now seeing signs that are our institutional fabric is fraying.” He cites sexual assault, hazing, drunken driving, fraternization and failure to maintain personal appearance standards among the issues he wants addressed.

    Amos wants security cameras installed in barracks, more noncommissioned officers and officers on duty, especially at night, and a better focus on leadership, personal appearance, and physical conditioning.

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  3. #2
    It sounds like something that should already be in place. I would also suggest they improve their back ground check system to insure quality (sane) people. That`s where it all falls apart.
    Even though I walk through the valley of the Shadow of Death, I will fear no Evil, for YOU are with me; Remington 44 Mag:

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob in Bristol View Post
    It sounds like something that should already be in place. I would also suggest they improve their back ground check system to insure quality (sane) people. That`s where it all falls apart.
    Their background check is, um, extensive. Very, very extensive. And expensive. Hence, they don't do it on everyone.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  5. #4
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    All the branches are falling apart. Everyone of them has scandals of a lascivious nature.

    Could be the CiC? Just a suggestion?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  6. #5
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    No disrespect, Grunt, but that article just didn't seem right to me, like something was missing. I found an article by Military Times about General Amos' presentation to a General Officer Symposium in Quantico, VA. Apparently there are many problems he's concerned with, he does not advocate arming everyone, just the staff officers and NCO's on duty during new barrack's procedurdes. Here's the article:

    Commandant calls for new crackdown on barracks life, Marine behavior
    'We have a behavioral problem within the Corps. A small, but not insignificant, number of our Marines are not living up to our ethos and core values,' Commandant Gen. Jim Amos told senior officers Sept. 23 during the General Officer Symposium at Quantico, Va. (Getty Images)

    By Dan Lamothe (Military Times)


    The Marine Corps commandant wants tough new measures put in place in barracks across the service to “reawaken” it morally and crack down on bad behavior, Marine Corps Times has learned.
    Gen. Jim Amos delivered his plan Sept. 23 to his senior officers during the General Officer Symposium at Quantico, Va. It calls for a variety of new initiatives, including the installation of security cameras in each barracks, the incorporation of more staff noncommissioned officers and officers on duty, and the arming of all officers on duty and staff NCOs on duty at all times, according to briefing slides from the commandant’s address.
    Amos’ presentation to general officers came six months after Officer Candidates School at Quantico was put on lockdown late March 21 following an apparent murder-suicide. Marine officials said Sgt. Eusebio Lopez, 25, shot and killed Cpl. Jacob Wooley, 23, and Lance Cpl. Sara Castro Mata, 19, before turning his gun on himself. All three Marines were staff members at the school, considered a revered proving ground for prospective Marine officers.
    The plan stretches well beyond improving safety, however. Amos’ briefing slides say that while the Corps has been successful fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, “we are now seeing signs that are our institutional fabric is fraying.” He cites sexual assault, hazing, drunken driving, fraternization and failure to maintain personal appearance standards among the issues he wants addressed.
    In a statement provided to Marine Corps Times on Sept. 26, the commandant expanded on his concerns.
    “It is impossible to overstate my pride in the brilliant performance of our Marines through 12 years of sustained combat,” his statement said. “As the Corps resets itself for the conflicts and crises to come, the magnificence of the many has thrown into sharp relief the failure of the few to live up to our high standards. Rather than wait for a creeping complacency to set in, I’m turning to my leaders at all levels to refocus Marines on what we do and who we are.”
    The commandant’s briefing slides were more blunt.
    “We have a behavioral problem within the Corps — a small, but not insignificant, number of our Marines are not living up to our ethos and core values,” one of Amos’ slides says. “They are hurting themselves, their fellow Marines, civilians, and damaging our reputation.”
    The commandant’s plan calls for a number of “immediate” changes, some of which are unlikely to be popular with Marines. They include:
    ■ Sergeants and corporals will return to the barracks, as basic allowance for housing is no longer allowed for single NCOs. This policy change was made in 2011, with the commandant saying it was necessary to save money and put the Corps’ new, impressive bachelor enlisted quarters to full use.
    ■ Senior officers, staff NCOs and NCOs will be in and out of the barracks regularly, especially between 8 p.m. and 4 a.m.
    ■ Company-grade officers will be assigned as officers on duty, and staff NCOs will be assigned as staff officers on duty. All Marines on duty will be required to wear service uniforms, either “Bravos” or “Charlies,” depending on which uniform is in season.
    ■ Two NCOs will be on duty per barracks and a firewatch will be conducted on each floor of each building.
    ■ Television and video games will not be allowed in the watchstander’s place of duty. They must be out and about, and not behind a desk.
    ■ Commanders leading Marine expeditionary forces, major subordinate commands and installations must develop plans to “fight and win” in the barracks with their sergeants major.
    ■ Every Marine above the rank of lance corporal must read “Leading Marines” and “Sustaining the Transformation” by Nov. 10, the Marine Corps’ 238th birthday. Both are official publications for the service, and focus on leadership.
    ■ Marines will no longer be promoted to corporal or sergeant in groups. “Each promotion to these ranks will be personal and meaningful,” one of Amos’ briefing slides says.
    ■ The Corps will “refocus on the ‘basic daily routine’ business” of running a battalion or squadron. Officers and staff NCOs will be present in the morning as their Marines get ready for their day, conduct organized physical training and eat breakfast.
    The commandant also called for a number of cultural changes. Among them, he said the service must “do a better a job of explaining the ‘why’ behind institutional decisions,” one of his briefing slides says. He also called for renewed emphasis on established standards, including behavior, physical conditioning, personal appearance, weight and body fat.
    “We will stop accepting bad behavior or substandard performance as a natural consequence of being a ‘combat hardened’ Marine Corps,” one of the commandant’s slides says.
    Every Marine checking into a new unit also will be contacted before he or she arrives by an assigned sponsor, and his or her NCO, staff NCO and company-grade officer will meet and greet them, Amos said, according to his brief.
    Other “near-term” changes are called for in his brief, including the installation of security cameras in every barracks. The last slide in the commandant’s presentation calls for the general officers at the symposium this week to discuss the initiatives he outlined.
    “I intend to adjust our GOS schedule later this week to have some time to hear your thoughts and recommendations,” it says. “This list is far from exhaustive ... your fingerprints are required!”
    Maj. Dave Nevers, a spokesman for the commandant, had no immediate comment Sept. 25 on the presentation. Gunnery Sgt. Chanin Nuntavong, a spokesman for Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Mike Barrett, could not be reached for comment.
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  7. #6
    dcselby1: Looks like you found a better article than the one I had. I like your version much better. What was stated in your article is much more like things used to be when I was wearing sandals and carrying a spear. I sure do miss those times and wish it was possible to go around again. But, alas, that is not to be.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    dcselby1: Looks like you found a better article than the one I had. I like your version much better. What was stated in your article is much more like things used to be when I was wearing sandals and carrying a spear. I sure do miss those times and wish it was possible to go around again. But, alas, that is not to be.
    Thanks, Grunt. Would that we could all do some things over again or at least had the TIME left to do so! I think the article I posted was simply the same without the creative editing and wishful thinking.
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  9. #8
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    I don't see a reason for there even being question about arming stateside troops while on duty. We trust these service members with the security of our country, but not firearms? Could it be that this Administration and the two previous administrations do trust them to follow their oaths of allegiance? Could it be that the government sees a threat to their power in arming our troops? It might also be why the government sees veterans as a threat if they are armed.

  10. #9
    I could never understand why they were disarmed in the first place. Being a soldier without a gun just goes against all that is real about the Armed Services, it is unnatural to me to think that we as a people don't trust our defensive forces when they are inside the borders of the country when they willing put their lives on the line to defend us overseas.
    ~
    The commandants leanings and thinking will take the corp back, back to when soldiers acted like soldiers and not individuals that work for the Armed Forces in defense described employment positions. In an attempt to stream line and entice recruits to enlist the real sense of military has been lost for a sense of normalcy. Military life is NOT and CAN NOT be assimilated to civilian life, it is not normal and not everyone can do what the Armed Forces are asked to accomplish.
    ~
    To me it's like the difference between being a soldier and playing the part of a soldier as a job.
    I'd rather be a Conservative Nutjob. Than a Liberal with NO Nuts & NO Job

  11. #10
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    I was in the military many years ago and I cannot think of anything more dangerous than a bunch of GI's and young Marines full of piss and vinegar running around armed. Arm them when they go to battle but not in populated areas. Whether you agree or not the military is home to a great many street gangstas. Sorry for the negative grunts but if you look at yourselves objectively you know you shouldn't be running around the post or the base with 9mm's loaded to the max. Too many of you guys are always butting heads. It is part of being a soldier or Marine to have an over grown ego that is pretty fragile. Now maybe if they apply for and obtain a ccw in their duty station state I could probably go along with that. But not a blanket carry for all!

    If you need more convincing check out this video, especially around the 2 minute mark. Now what will these guys do if armed 24/7. Play RAMBO on our heads?


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