NRA needs to become more proactive against school shootings - Page 2
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Thread: NRA needs to become more proactive against school shootings

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertasdon View Post
    As an NRA Life Member, I generally support all policies and positions taken by the organization.
    Would that include supporting their "policy" of opposing bringing Heller to the Supreme Court?

    Would that include their compromise "position" which opposed the 14th Amendment incorporation of Heller in the subsequent McDonald v. City of Chicago? In other words, they opposed imposing Heller nationwide, and supported keeping Chicago a Constitution-Free-Zone.

    The list of anti-gun and anti-Constitution policies and positions by the N R A is multitudinous. That's not to say that they do absolutely no good whatsoever, it's just to say that one should know the details and nuances of their policies and positions before blindly supporting them on "generally all" of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by libertasdon View Post
    I have done so ever since I joined up in the 1980's when California, my adopted state and current home, tried to suppress gun ownership with its infamous Proposition 15.
    I grew up in CA and cut my activist eye teeth on Prop 15. The N R A spent quite a bit of money during that campaign, but it was the biggest grass-roots effort that I've seen before or since that defeated the law. Again, the N R A are not good for nothin', but neither should all credit for pro-gun victories be handed to them without them clearly earning it. And as well, they should get their due when they're on the wrong side of an issue too, which very few members will even acknowledge they are WAY too often.

    Quote Originally Posted by libertasdon View Post
    Today, the media reports that a middle school student in Sparks, Nevada shot fellow students and a teacher and then took his own life. At least one other is dead. How did this young person obtain a loaded firearm?
    In the context of your post, the question I have is what could the N R A possibly do to overcome careless security in keeping their firearms from their kids and/or indifference to what's goin' on with their kids in the first place? This is a parenting issue, and while I myself am the product of many N R A safety classes as a kid, it isn't the place of a gun-rights .org to be giving lessons on parenting.

    Quote Originally Posted by libertasdon View Post
    It seems to me the NRA could help the current situation by developing a national ad campaign on family gun safety, a campaign that would be as well-conceived and as widespread as the erstwhile "I am the NRA." But it should be more than advertising. It should be a multi-faceted campaign of education and communication that is serious and effective. It may or may not recommend new legislation.
    Whoa! As in gun control legislation??? As far as I'm concerned, the N R A shall not involve itself (any more than it already has) in gun control legislation in response to a handful of isolated incidents that, counter-intuitive or not, seemingly insensitive or not, don't even move the needle in the statistics of unjustifiable death by gunfire over the last 30 years in this country.

    Quote Originally Posted by libertasdon View Post
    But it should demonstrate convincingly that the NRA's support for the 2nd Amendment allows no room for gun ownership where loaded firearms can fall into the hands of unsupervised minors.
    That's going to be pretty hard to demonstrate, convincingly or otherwise, since it isn't true in the least. Not only were many minors involved in the Revolutionary War that made the 2nd Amendment's creation even possible, there is story after story available in today's news that chronicles pubescent and adolescent children defending their homes with their parents' weapons when the parents aren't home. Of those stories, I have not heard of one where either the child or the parents were prosecuted for unjustifiable use of force, or even vilified by the leftist media or blogosphere or editorialists as long as a real threat to the kids' safety was present when they pulled the trigger. I could cite news reports on several of them if need be, but I know I'm not the only one here who is aware of such stories. Saying that there is "...no room for gun ownership where loaded firearms can fall into the hands of unsupervised minors" implicit in the 2nd Amendment makes a mockery of both the intent of the Framers in including it in the Bill of Rights and the history of its protections over the 2+ centuries of its existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by libertasdon View Post
    It should be part of a national, local and state-level campaign to eliminate in so far as possible all school shootings. As the preeminent gun organization in America, the NRA has an obligation, as well as an opportunity, to lead the way out of this national nightmare involving the misuse of guns by children. It is time to do more than oppose reflexive and useless gun-ban legislation. The NRA must step up.
    Like I said, I am the product of at least eight N R A safety classes as a kid. My first one was sponsored by the YMCA who brought the N R A instructors to the local police shooting range to run the class for hundreds of kids over both days of a given weekend. I was 9. I think the cut-off was 8, but whatever, the YMCA, the PD, the N R A and local gun clubs all combined to teach gun safety hands-on to kids, not to advertise about it to parents, and if I'm not mistaken, there was no involvement between the civic organizations and the City Council or LA County Commission, and I know for sure that the state had absolutely nothing to say about what we did there in the South Bay (Redondo, Manhattan and Hermosa Beaches). The only governmental agency involved was the PD, some of whom were N R A instructors themselves and many of whom had their own kids in the classes. Before I was 11, I had already completed three classes and my mom bought me my first .22 rifle that same year. By the time I was 14 and entering high school, I know I had at least 8 classes under my belt, maybe 10, but my one and only elective that year was to get on the last rifle team to compete in the South Bay. Never once were any of my .22s or competition pellet guns locked up where I couldn't get to them. When Mom bought that first .22 for me, she did keep the ammo where I didn't know where it was, but soon thereafter I got into competition shooting and it became more of a hassle than it was worth. I had a ready-to-go range bag just like all of my instructors did, and guess what? I never shot anybody, never played with my gun(s) at all, and to this day I employ the same training I got way back when.

    There's only one thing I know of that the N R A does flawlessly, and that's firearms safety classroom and hands-on instruction, and before it was fashionable to deny children the benefit of that instruction, they particularly excelled at teaching kids. They have screwed the pooch many times when it comes to supporting the wrong side of gun control initiatives. They have completely failed at supporting the most 2A-compliant and important court cases. They are one of the very last organizations I would turn to for parenting instruction.

    You should go ahead and call the N R A with your suggestions. With their penchant for sticking their noses in the wrong side of legislation, I'm sure they'll be glad to hear from you. Just do the rest of the Free World a favor and limit your suggestions to the already-commiefied state of Commiefornia. We out here in the Heartland have actually made some great strides towards a more 2A-compliant group of state governments, and the N R A has been marginal at best in achieving much of it.

    Thanks but no thanks. Oh, and welcome to the site.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    Yep! Gonna revolutionize the world! We shall use logic and common sense. Politics will work again!
    Well jumpin' jehozaphat! That'll be some new learnins' for the politicians in Washington.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  4. Bet the parents of that 7th grader wish the teacher had a gun and put their kid down. Wouldn't need to kill him; a bullet in the thigh would've hurt, but he'd be alive. Guns Save Lives.

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankW View Post
    Bet the parents of that 7th grader wish the teacher had a gun and put their kid down. Wouldn't need to kill him; a bullet in the thigh would've hurt, but he'd be alive. Guns Save Lives.
    If this little coward had known that some of his teachers were armed, he would have left the gun at home.

    Guns Save Lives
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Perhaps the problem is that the NRA's base doesn't see much value in education but rather responds to slogans and flag waiving. sure, the NRA spends some on gun safety education, but contributions might drop if the NRA spent a majority of its resources on on a campaign aimed at educating the public about gun safety, adults and children included. The NRA can't even have a gun raffle - it has to be a "banned gun" raffle to garner interest from the rank and file.
    Are you kidding me? The NRA is the forerunner in gun safety education and gun training. Here's a link, you can sign up for one. NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training

    How would you suggest the NRA educate the public if not through classes they offer? You do realize that for the longest time, they were not allowed to advertise at all? They fought that long and hard and now have podcasts, radio programming, and shows on the Sportsman Channels. Also, if you want news that educates about gun safety, gun events, and where armed citizens make a difference, please click here: NRA News | Resources | Your One-Stop Second Amendment Source

    How else would you like them to educate?


    If your beef with the NRA is not doing the right thing concerning gun legislation on several / many occasions then I have no beef. But to say the NRA doesn't see much value in education is a farce. That's the ONLY thing the NRA gets right.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  7. #16
    How would you have the NRA befome more pro-active? They condemned the actions of Sandy Hook, they came up with plans for armed security at public schools which was summarily rejected by Obama and every Democrat kool-aid drinker as being some terrible idea, because it came from the NRA.... that is until Obama suggested nearly the exact same thing, and it became a wonderful idea to the Dems. What do you want the NRA to do?
    No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    Are you kidding me? The NRA is the forerunner in gun safety education and gun training. Here's a link, you can sign up for one. NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training

    How would you suggest the NRA educate the public if not through classes they offer? You do realize that for the longest time, they were not allowed to advertise at all? They fought that long and hard and now have podcasts, radio programming, and shows on the Sportsman Channels. Also, if you want news that educates about gun safety, gun events, and where armed citizens make a difference, please click here: NRA News | Resources | Your One-Stop Second Amendment Source

    How else would you like them to educate?


    If your beef with the NRA is not doing the right thing concerning gun legislation on several / many occasions then I have no beef. But to say the NRA doesn't see much value in education is a farce. That's the ONLY thing the NRA gets right.
    Educating the public - not educating instructors - is where the NRA has failed.

    The NRA could use its resources to run a "keep your guns safe from kids" campaign instead of a "banned weapons" raffle.

    But NRA contributions would drop if the base thought it the leadership had gone all warm and fuzzy with education instead of slogans and rally round flag promotions.

  9. #18
    Don't confuse the NRA with the ILA. Same organization, but completely different branches with different goals and purposes.
    No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  10. Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Educating the public - not educating instructors - is where the NRA has failed.

    The NRA could use its resources to run a "keep your guns safe from kids" campaign instead of a "banned weapons" raffle.

    But NRA contributions would drop if the base thought it the leadership had gone all warm and fuzzy with education instead of slogans and rally round flag promotions.
    You mean like this one?
    Eddie Eagle GunSafe|Eddie Eagle GunSafe

    Begun in 1988, The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has reached more than 26 million children - in all 50 states. This program was developed through the combined efforts of such qualified professionals as clinical psychologists, reading specialists, teachers, curriculum specialists, urban housing safety officials, and law enforcement personnel.
    or one of these
    Youth Programs|Youth Programs

    or one of these
    Women's Programs|Women's Programs
    I'm not a lawyer so take it for what it's worth. For legal advice ask a lawyer.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Those who accept second best must learn to live with mediocrity. - pafindr

  11. #20
    Thanks to the BSA, I was an NRA certified marksman/expert by the age of 16. It's a shame society has gone in the direction that it has over the past 20 or so years, though.
    No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
    Robert A. Heinlein

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