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Thread: Gun Ban Obama-Biden

  1. #41
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    How could we ever elect someone who went to a church that believed in commitment to god, community, family, education, and the pursuit of excellence? What a monster.
    When it is all about blaming another race for everything that goes wrong and believing the US is a bad place, yeah.

    I don't really want to rehash the entire thing with you because this forum really isn't about religion, is it?
    Frankly you don't seem willing to discuss much of any of the points that have been brought up. If you want to keep it pertinent to this forum, Obama's changing for the campaign statements about the Second Amendment would be a good place to start.

    The reason I brought up the whole Rev. Wright issue was merely to point out that he can't be both a radical Christian and a radical Muslim (as some others have suggested).
    But he can be a radical Muslim who claims to have been a member of a radical "Christian" church. I don't think Obama has a religion, except politics and doing what he has to do to get elected (a loose repeat of what Rev. Wright, Obama's spiritual mentor said about him). I see him just like the Clinton's, religious when it is politically expedient.

    But again taking it back to this forum, how can anyone justify his changing positions on the Second Amendment based largely on his political audience?
    Last edited by maybejim; 11-09-2008 at 12:47 AM.
    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

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  3. #42
    I'm not familiar with exactly what you are referring to, but I'm happy to discuss it with you. Can you give me some more info on what you mean by changing position on second amendment rights? Do you have specific speeches or articles that you're thinking of?

    Thanks for bringing this back to a reasonable place. I probably should have quit responding to those other threads a long time ago.
    Husky Girl

  4. #43
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    YouTube - Obama And The Second Amendment

    Obama's Toothless Second Amendment: The senator defends the right to whatever arms the government decides to allow. - Reason Magazine

    "What works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne," Barack Obama said after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the Washington, D.C., gun ban. The Illinois senator was talking about gun control laws, but he could just as well have been talking about his interpretation of the Second Amendment...

    That belated blurification was an inartful attempt to avoid explaining the senator's consistent position, which he has repeatedly confirmed. In a February 12 interview, Leon Harris of WJLA, the ABC affiliate in Washington, said to Obama, "You support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional." Obama nodded, saying, "Right, right." Three days later, at a press conference in Milwaukee, Obama cited the D.C. law as an example of gun control that's consistent with the Second Amendment.

    Gun Law News - Barack Obama

    Obama Supports Individual Gun Rights

    He said he would support federal legislation based on a California law that would facilitate immediate tracing of bullets used in a crime. He said even though the California law was passed over the strong objection of the National Rifle Association, he thinks it's the type of law that gun owners and crime victims can get behind.

    He likely doesn't even know what the Kalifornia law is or that it doesn't work for a variety of reasons including no one makes a gun that meets the law and it obviously won't work with older guns and it doesn't do anything for stolen guns and it is easily defeated.


    Although Obama supports gun control, while campaigning in gun-friendly Idaho earlier this month, he said he does not intend to take away people's guns. At his news conference, he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, which is scheduled to be heard by the Supreme Court next month.

    An ObamaNation of Obama: Obama's Second Amendment & "Clinging to Your Guns"

    These sites will give you a place to start looking at the squirrelly positions Obama has taken.



    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Husky Girl View Post
    I'm not familiar with exactly what you are referring to, but I'm happy to discuss it with you. Can you give me some more info on what you mean by changing position on second amendment rights? Do you have specific speeches or articles that you're thinking of?

    Thanks for bringing this back to a reasonable place. I probably should have quit responding to those other threads a long time ago.
    Would his past voting record help? It shows a complete anti position.

    Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
    FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
    Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
    Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
    2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
    Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
    Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
    Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
    Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
    Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
    Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    Would his past voting record help? It shows a complete anti position.

    Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
    FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
    Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
    Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
    2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
    Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
    Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
    Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
    Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
    Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
    Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

    Thanks ronwill. It could not be anymore obvious.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. #46

  8. #47
    According to his voting record, it looks like he's pretty consistent - not flip-floping the way some people have suggested. It also looks like while he may be personally against handguns, he is supportive of the 2nd amendment in that he believes it is up to local governments to make laws regarding gun control, not the federal government.

    One of the most encouraging points that I saw was that he voted "Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)" - to me that is the way it shoudl be. The federal government has no right to limit constitutional rights, and it's up to me to make sure that my local government officials won't either.
    Husky Girl

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Husky Girl View Post
    According to his voting record, it looks like he's pretty consistent - not flip-floping the way some people have suggested. It also looks like while he may be personally against handguns, he is supportive of the 2nd amendment in that he believes it is up to local governments to make laws regarding gun control, not the federal government.

    One of the most encouraging points that I saw was that he voted "Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)" - to me that is the way it shoudl be. The federal government has no right to limit constitutional rights, and it's up to me to make sure that my local government officials won't either.
    The 2nd Amendment is the only one of the Bill of Rights that was not yet incorporated to the states - until Heller, which most people recognize as a precedent that would force states to recognize it. By definition, 2A is not a local issue - it's a federal issue, which is why it's in the Constitution to begin with.

    If 2A were not an issue of Constitutional law on a federal level, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because this forum wouldn't exist, because most of us would not own guns worth owning, and we certainly wouldn't be carrying them around in public without getting arrested.

    It's like saying that slavery is an issue for local governments to make laws about. Absolutely not - slavery, like prohibitions against firearms, is wrong in every way imaginable, and should not be tolerated in any capacity.
    Silent Running, by Mike and the Mechanics

  10. #49
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    He's for the 2nd as long as it can be destroyed.

    It also looks like while he may be personally against handguns, he is supportive of the 2nd amendment in that he believes it is up to local governments to make laws regarding gun control, not the federal government.
    So in your view he is supportive of the 2nd Amendment as long as it can be completely outlawed on the State and local levels? Interesting that you can accept that "reasoning".

    One of the most encouraging points that I saw was that he voted "Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)" - to me that is the way it shoudl be.
    So in your view then the freedom of speech is fine as long as the States and Cities can pass laws against it? It is the same thing, you know. No doubt that will be the justification for shutting down Talk Radio when the "fairness doctrine" is re instituted and the SC turns down the Fed's ruling.

    The federal government has no right to limit constitutional rights, and it's up to me to make sure that my local government officials won't either.
    But you've just said you are OK with your local officials being able to limit your Constitutional rights.
    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  11. #50
    I was trying to say that (from the voting record that was posted earlier) it doesn't sound like he wants to mess with 2A. He wants to leave it up to the local governments. if that's the case, then I'm going to pay more attention to how my local government officials feel about gun control than I am to how he feels about gun control.

    Either way, it's a moot point, becuase as someone else pointed out, 2A is a federal issue, not a local issue. I think I made the mistake of becoming defensive before I really thought out my arguement. My bad! Don't worry, I'll so some more research and come up with something...
    Husky Girl

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