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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northern Indiana
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    The Democrats are already back tracking because they know he has overstated what he can accomplish.
    You're exactly right about politicians. They do lie to get elected but the part that bothers me the most is that a lot of uninformed folks voted for him because of his "change" rhetoric. Many don't have any idea what that means. You can promise the world, but I've been around long enough to know that NO ONE can deliver it.
    Good luck to us all.

    LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by jwtollett21 View Post
    Call me a socialist. Whatever. I guess you majic man make 250k a year and worried about your taxes going back to where they were in the clinton days. If you do i see why you are worried about obama if you don't make that much then why do you care. Obama is simply going to let that discount for the rich go away but keep the others in force.

    For your question though of if i can take him at his word on all his promises. I want to but all politicians promise the world and rarely do they completely deliver. So everything he said i am sure will not come to pass.The same for mccain to. I do believe these guys will say anything to get elected. But what i am convinced with on obama is that he will do more for the hard working americans, bring the war in iraq to an end within the year 2009, work toward getting the millions of americans insured, not to mention attempting to get this economy going again.
    As for my income, it's GROSSLY less than 250k/yr. I work in healthcare and I know what government oversight brings. More bureaucracy, more oversight, more paperwork, more people doing less to oversee more, and LESS care for those who need it. Ever hear of DRG's? They are what say how long you can stay in a hospital for a specific diagnosis. Any longer and you're gone (basically). These were brought about by Medicare (the federal government) and now followed by all insurers. They have DECREASED th level of care people get, and increased the severity of illnesses that come back after discharge; thereby costing MORE to treat. Plus, the paperwork and ovrsight involved just to GET paid is abhorrent. It's costs more to play the game within the system than it would have if it were left alone to begin with. That's my point. When government gets involved, it only makes things much worse. Name one program the federal government administers that works well and has HELPED the system/program/industry work BETTER. I can't.
    As for his word, you've already backtracked. You stated you took him at his word and now you say you WANT to. Again, changing the rules of engagement. But I AM glad to hear you say you don't believe him. That was my single biggest sticking point. Now, who you believe more, or who you feel has the best chance of helping the most people more is a philisophical question. You believe that by helping the working man, the economy will get better. This is true, I believe, to an extent. But I also believe that business needs to be helped also to put these people to work IN THIS COUNTRY. Not to send jobs overseas, or to bring people INTO this country when there are millions here already who are not working and are getting federal monies to do so (medicaid is a federal program administered by the states). Through this, we've created a welfare state and only made things worse. I believe federal involvement in healthcare will only serve to increase this problem and decrease the quality of care given. I also believe by helping the "working class" more (and I use that term loosely to include those ABLE to work but who don't), it will serve to increase the amount of people on federal assistance programs. Where does this money come from? Taxes on business. Great.....except that they have to make money to pay money. And to do that, they have to have workers. And to do that, people need to be willing to GO to work. It becomes a circle that never ends. And then there's the purchasing of the goods/services these companies make. Who can afford to buy them if business has to pay higher taxes? They'll raise the price of their wares so they can make monsy (to pay their taxes too).
    So who's right? Both actually are correct. It has to be a mix of both. That's where the line gets grey. I don't trust Obama to be willing to compromise enough to help business as well as the little guy. His ideas of "wealth redistribution" sound VERY socialistic. And if that's how you believe, then so be it. We'll have to agree to disagree. The question comes down to what you feel government is there for? Are they there to take care of us and make sure we're all OK, and all have the minimal same amount of everything? Or do you believe they are there to make sure the playing field stays fair and let people make it or break it on their own? I do NOT believe government is there to control my life, or tell me what to do and when and how, nor are they there to "coddle me" and take care of my every need. That's MY responsibility. Should I stumble a bit, sure give me a hand UP, not a hand OUT.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    103
    The difference between a Democrat and a Republican.

    A Democrat sees a poor man on the street and says, "lets give him a handout so he can eat today."
    The Republican sees the man and says, "lets teach him how to earn money so he can eat for a lifetime."

    Socialism makes us weak. Independence makes us strong. Let us keep what we make and not depend on government to baby us. They will screw it up everytime.
    Last edited by gestu1; 11-06-2008 at 08:22 AM.

  5. #44
    Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for the night.
    Light a man on fire and you keep him warm for life.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by gestu1 View Post
    The Democrats are already back tracking because they know he has overstated what he can accomplish.
    You're exactly right about politicians. They do lie to get elected but the part that bothers me the most is that a lot of uninformed folks voted for him because of his "change" rhetoric. Many don't have any idea what that means. You can promise the world, but I've been around long enough to know that NO ONE can deliver it.
    Good luck to us all.

    LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!

    Yep, that happend soon as they said he won. For months all we have heard is the "he" is the man with the plan to fix the economy. Now all we hear is that one person can't do it. Funny how things change so suddenly. When he gets tired of dealing with the economy he's gonna work on stuff he can change, like the amount of taxes we pay and the 2nd. I bet the $250,000 and under per year income suddenly drops also. Probably anyone who pays taxes will soon see an increase.

  7. #46
    Kid of reminds me when Clinton first ran for President he talked about a tax break. the day after he was elected he came out and said he might not be able to go through with the tax cuts because the economy was in worse shape that he had thought. Funny how he found out he could not keep his promise the day after being elected. How do you tell if a politician telling a lie? If his lips are moving. In this respect Obama is a great politician.
    Last edited by HK4U; 11-06-2008 at 09:25 PM.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Kid of reminds me when Clinton first ran for President he talked about a tax break. the day after he was elected he came out and said he might not be able to go through with the tax cuts because the economy was in worse shape that he had thought. Funny how he found out he could not keep his promise the day after being elected. How do you tell if a politician telling a lie? If his lips are moving. In this respect Obama is a great politician.
    +1!! I couldn't agree more.

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