a question for our military folks....
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Thread: a question for our military folks....

  1. #1
    boyzoi Guest

    Question a question for our military folks....

    this goes out to all of the military personel either active or inactive from any branch.
    First please do not take this as a challange to you personally.......it is not!!!
    With the election upon us and the chance that we will have a President that will challange the core of the Constitution, the 2nd.....I was wondering.

    The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees):

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

    The Oath of Office (for officers):

    "I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."


    above you can see that at swearing in you are giving your oath to protecting the Constitution FIRST (from foreign and domestic enemies )and then the office of President......in the officers oath the President is not mentioned.
    When do you draw the line........if one knows that a potential President will likely destroy(based on his past record) the 2nd A and that is a fundemental of the Contstitution are you obligated to vote to protect the constitution? applies to senators and congressman too.
    along the same lines but only if some of tthe more radical scenarios come to pass, are you obligated to take arms against your fellow Americans who may be gathering to fight for the 2ndA and would you follow your ordres from the President to shoot or would you ultimately stand and follow your oath to protect the Constitution???
    Again, I mean no disrespect I am seriously interested as I have spoken to and put this in front of many police officers I work with and...........well I was surprised

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Exclamation I swore an oath to defend the Constitution

    I will defend her to my last dying breath.
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  4. #3
    Article 90 of the UCMJ willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer; shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

    during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death

    Article 91 of the UCMJ willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer; or
    treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer while that officer is in the execution of his office; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

    Article 92 of the UCMJ

    violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

    having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

    is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    (1) Violation of or failure to obey a lawful general order or regulation.

    (a) That there was in effect a certain lawful general order or regulation;

    (b) That the accused had a duty to obey it; and

    (c) That the accused violated or failed to obey the order or regulation.

    (2) Failure to obey other lawful order.

    (a) That a member of the armed forces issued a certain lawful order;

    (b) That the accused had knowledge of the order;

    (c) That the accused had a duty to obey the order; and

    (d) That the accused failed to obey the order
    These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it

    Article 94 of the UCMJ

    "Any person subject to this chapter who--

    (1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuse, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;

    (2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;

    (3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.

    (b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct

    If any use solder open fires and kills a US CIV you can count on a all out civil war.. Unless he was a BG attacking the troops or doing some crime. But if the order comes down to shoot CIV's that will start a war with in the US.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  5. #4
    On a side note, I would be/ am more worried about Police officers Shooting us. There are a lot out there who are just waiting to use there guns. If a order came to them i have no doubt they would open fire and kill us. Idk what the police said who you talked to. But most of them would kill us with out thinking about it.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  6. #5
    boyzoi Guest
    1st post.........I know what the ucmj is and posting it isnt the answer.......it expalins what wil happen if you disobey etc...loaded with catch 22's imo......thats the point of my post.....you have your orders which are in direct conflict to the first thing you did...take your oath to defend the Constitution first.....????
    2nd post.......you hit the nail on the head, and having worked as close as I have with some of the ones I asked I was shocked. if given the order "they say" they will shoot. how much of that is bravado....not sure I want to be there to find out. To me there is no dilema.....as Festus stated........its the Constitution, period!!!

  7. #6
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    I would'nt pass on any illegal or unlawful orders. As a leader, it's my responsibility protect those under me from such orders. I've taken the heat on several occasions where we received "questionable" orders. I have never been prosecuted or charged for disobeying orders. I did have to go a couple of rounds with JAG officers, but in the end, I was never charged with wrong doing.




    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by boyzoi View Post
    1st post.........I know what the ucmj is and posting it isnt the answer.......it expalins what wil happen if you disobey etc...loaded with catch 22's imo......thats the point of my post.....you have your orders which are in direct conflict to the first thing you did...take your oath to defend the Constitution first.....????
    2nd post.......you hit the nail on the head, and having worked as close as I have with some of the ones I asked I was shocked. if given the order "they say" they will shoot. how much of that is bravado....not sure I want to be there to find out. To me there is no dilema.....as Festus stated........its the Constitution, period!!!
    LOL that's my point. How ****** up is that. The people who should be Protecting us Are chopping at the bits to not do so. They want to kill us lol. I think they forget that it's just a job and will not last forever. They will **** them self's when they are being shot at by police. Just a few that come to mind ( NYPD,LAPD,NOPD.)

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  9. #8
    Very interesting thread. Bad days are just around the corner and wondered about alot of what is being talked about here.
    If you look at what happened after hurricane Katrina, I think you might find some answers.
    The people paid to serve and protect went rogue. many just left and went awal. Others began to loot. The order was given to take away law abiding citizens guns, and they did, even by force.
    In a time when the people really needed their guns to protect themselves, the cops went door to door taking them away.
    Gangs took over the streets. People were raped, robbed and killed. They were unable to defend themselves and the people paid to defend them did nothing.
    When the liberal left wing commies take over america and surrender it to our enemies will the Military step in?
    Will we see citizens become minute men again?

  10. #9
    Well lets see here???? I'M thinking Minute men again we will be fighting each other and the GOV..

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  11. #10
    Sure does seem that way to me, unless you want to give up your freedom and America.

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