New Secret Audio Of Hillary Clinton Saying She’ll Destroy The Second Amendment - Page 2
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Thread: New Secret Audio Of Hillary Clinton Saying She’ll Destroy The Second Amendment

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Nice analysis, you're wrong, but nice analysis.
    I was only addressing 2A "purists," or those who think the words "shall not be infringed" should actually mean something. You are not one such person, and so your evaluation of what's wrong or right in my analysis is utterly meaningless to me.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  2.   
  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    I was only addressing 2A "purists," or those who think the words "shall not be infringed" should actually mean something. You are not one such person, and so your evaluation of what's wrong or right in my analysis is utterly meaningless to me.

    Blues
    Don't like my commentary, don't reply. We already know based on your general attitude in posts, and your lengthy justifications of whatever, that unless someone agrees with you 100% you consider them below below your intelligence level. We already know you don't need anyone, and the government is wrong about everything. If you want to get into a p***ing match....whatever. My $.02 is just as valid as yours...i just chose to use fewer words.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Don't like my commentary, don't reply. We already know based on your general attitude in posts, and your lengthy justifications of whatever, that unless someone agrees with you 100% you consider them below below your intelligence level. We already know you don't need anyone, and the government is wrong about everything. If you want to get into a p***ing match....whatever. My $.02 is just as valid as yours...i just chose to use fewer words.
    No, what you chose to do was make your reply about me being wrong instead of addressing the valid analysis itself that I offered. In other words, your post was meaningless to the thread topic, and thus meaningless to me (or anybody else for that matter). Simply saying "you're wrong" adds nothing to any conversation, anymore than the ad hominem above does.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    No, what you chose to do was make your reply about me being wrong instead of addressing the valid analysis itself that I offered. In other words, your post was meaningless to the thread topic, and thus meaningless to me (or anybody else for that matter). Simply saying "you're wrong" adds nothing to any conversation, anymore than the ad hominem above does.

    Blues
    Fine, you made a very nice attempt at analyzing the problem. As usual, your conclusions are wrong by virtue of the simple fact that as always reality contradicts your wishful thinking regarding the 2nd amendment.

    You're like Vizzini in the Princess Bride. What you think it means, isn't what it actually is. What you think the 2nd Amendment means, isn't what the founding fathers, & 200+ years of law and juris prudence have said it means.

    Put simply, nice analysis, but you're wrong.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

  6. #15
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    Howdy,

    Quote Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
    Do you have a hangup for SWM s that live with their mom ??
    Nope, but normal, sane and/or well adjusted adult men that are +40yo do NOT still live with their moms.

    Paul

  7. edited, have a nice vacation

    Calvin
    Last edited by calvin; 08-02-2016 at 10:33 AM.
    How do you brainwash a liberal? Simple, give him an enema.

  8. #17
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    Howdy,

    edited

    Nope, but I do find it strange that so many of the members of this forum still live with their moms.

    Paul
    Last edited by calvin; 08-02-2016 at 10:33 AM.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GryHounnd View Post
    Fine, you made a very nice attempt at analyzing the problem. As usual, your conclusions are wrong by virtue of the simple fact that as always reality contradicts your wishful thinking regarding the 2nd amendment.

    You're like Vizzini in the Princess Bride. What you think it means, isn't what it actually is. What you think the 2nd Amendment means, isn't what the founding fathers, & 200+ years of law and juris prudence have said it means.

    Put simply, nice analysis, but you're wrong.
    You make claims about what the Founders intended the Second Amendment to mean without backing it up with a single word from even one of them. Here, let me fix that for you:

    “What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.”– Thomas Jefferson

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
    ---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

    "We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;"
    ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.

    "Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
    -- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
    -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

    If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.
    -- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 29

    That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
    -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

    "The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    --James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

    "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
    --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

    "Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
    -Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344

    " ... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights ..."
    -- Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29

    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason, during Virginia's ratification convention, 1788

    "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" - Patrick Henry

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington



    There are hundreds more quotes from both Founders and founding-era scholars and commentators that substantiate that the words, "shall not be infringed" were intended to mean just exactly what the words mean. "Shall not" is not a combination of words that leaves room for nuanced interpretation. Nuanced interpretation is itself an act of usurpation when employed by any government entity. While some of the above quotes do indeed make tangential allusions to training and/or education regarding proper use of weaponry, none of those allusions define hard and fast rules sufficient to overcome the unambiguous prohibition against infringing on The Peoples' right to keep and bear privately owned arms placed upon government contained within the Second Amendment. That prohibition extends to military-grade arms too according to the plain, unambiguous statements by Founders above. In fact, it extends especially to military-grade arms.

    You can *say* I'm wrong all day long, but what you can't do is substantiate that claim with the words of the people who wrote and/or participated in debating the creation of The Constitution or Bill of Rights in any official capacity. What they intended the Second Amendment to mean is a matter of factual history, and no usurpation by either SCOTUS, Congress or any given President can change or defeat the truth of that history. Certainly your insipid ad hominem knee-jerk claims of me being wrong are not sufficient to defeat anything I've said in this thread.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    You make claims about what the Founders intended the Second Amendment to mean without backing it up with a single word from even one of them. Here, let me fix that for you:

    “What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.”– Thomas Jefferson

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
    ---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

    "We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;"
    ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.

    "Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
    -- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
    -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

    If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.
    -- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 29

    That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
    -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

    "The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    --James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

    "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
    --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

    "Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
    -Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344

    " ... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights ..."
    -- Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29

    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason, during Virginia's ratification convention, 1788

    "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" - Patrick Henry

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington



    There are hundreds more quotes from both Founders and founding-era scholars and commentators that substantiate that the words, "shall not be infringed" were intended to mean just exactly what the words mean. "Shall not" is not a combination of words that leaves room for nuanced interpretation. Nuanced interpretation is itself an act of usurpation when employed by any government entity. While some of the above quotes do indeed make tangential allusions to training and/or education regarding proper use of weaponry, none of those allusions define hard and fast rules sufficient to overcome the unambiguous prohibition against infringing on The Peoples' right to keep and bear privately owned arms placed upon government contained within the Second Amendment. That prohibition extends to military-grade arms too according to the plain, unambiguous statements by Founders above. In fact, it extends especially to military-grade arms.

    You can *say* I'm wrong all day long, but what you can't do is substantiate that claim with the words of the people who wrote and/or participated in debating the creation of The Constitution or Bill of Rights in any official capacity. What they intended the Second Amendment to mean is a matter of factual history, and no usurpation by either SCOTUS, Congress or any given President can change or defeat the truth of that history. Certainly your insipid ad hominem knee-jerk claims of me being wrong are not sufficient to defeat anything I've said in this thread.

    Blues
    Another EPIC beat down!!!

  11. #20
    You can quote whoever you like all day long, it doesn't change the facts as they are applied in real life. Like I said, your fantasy interpretation of the 2nd amendment and the Constitution are trumped by reality and the fact that the Supreme Court & lower courts, law enforcement, The President, Congress, & State Legislatures have not implemented your interpretation of all the quotes you assert as "truth". Reality is the ultimate trump card and needs no defense. So continue living in your dead dog holler or wherever you pretend to live, and continue to pretend that your beliefs and understanding of the legal system trump how laws are applied in reality. Those of us who aren't living in fantasyland, along De-nile, in the land of confusion will continue to live in the real world and operate according to the laws of reality.

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