Bill Clinton’s Comment About Hillary’s Health Could End Her Chances of Winning - Page 7
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Thread: Bill Clinton’s Comment About Hillary’s Health Could End Her Chances of Winning

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    78% of all Sheriffs accounts for a total of about 2,402 people spread across over 3,000,000 square miles. That's quite an army, right there.
    You are also assuming that all of the Sheriff's deputies would do the same, and that all of the citizens would do the same because the Sheriff is elected to the position.
    Your assumptions run amazingly deep and wide, and have no backing in fact whatsoever.
    It's amazing you can say that after the drubbing I gave you for your assumptions in the following little gem of a post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    I think you may be utterly lost in your own version of reality.
    In 2008, there were 4.7 million permits to carry issued in the US. The population was >320,000,000.
    I'll do the math for you: that's 1.2% of the population.
    Allow me to drub some more: First, where did you get that 4.7 million figure from, and are you confident enough in its accuracy to provide a link so we can verify our own confidence in it for ourselves? I'm gonna bet it came from here, which, if it did, is just as irrelevant to the "point" you attempted to make as everything else you said, but maybe I'm wrong. If so, please provide a link to where that figure came from.

    Second, the total population of the United States is a wholly irrelevant factoid when it comes to figuring percentages of eligible permission slip holders. In 2010 (that's a Census Bureau link, so save all your ridiculous "click-bait" and "profit-making" nonsense), 24% of the population fell under the age of 18, whose numbers should be disregarded within your equations, along with the 19 and 20-year-olds who don't qualify under the 21 age-limit for permission slip issuance in most, if not all, states that require them.

    Third, in 2010 there were only 308,745,538 people accounted for in that year's Census according to the same link above. It's hard to imagine that in 2008 12 million more could be known to be accurate. Census estimates for 2015 (most recent available data, again, from the Census Bureau) were 321,418,820 million, so not only is the total population and resulting sum of total permit holders parts of your calculations egregiously inflated by not accounting for ineligibility of more than 20% of the population, but your 320 million in 2008 baseline is off by a significant percentage to boot.

    You'd have actually made your point better, and maintained the moral authority to be demanding accuracy, documentation, links and backing up with facts what other people say, if you bothered to fact-check the numbers that you obviously accepted from an unreliable source, or simply pulled out of your backside as intellectually vapid people are wont to do. Your ostensible point being that there aren't enough people in the US who are both armed and willing to engage the government in battle. By using the correct and verifiable numbers, you'd have ended up with literally millions less than the 4.7 million you came up with by accepting the gaseous stank coming out of your backside!

    LOL Man, you guys slay me with how easy it is to show how little you know about what you don't know, and you know what? The answer to that question is, "No, you don't know what either!" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    Far from a majority.
    Which reminds me, I asked you before what a "majority" of the overall population of the United States has to do with prosecuting a war of any description? No war in the history of the world has ever had the majority of the overall population engaged in actually fighting it, and many wars have been won by minuscule minorities of The People, including our own Revolutionary War where estimates ranged from only 1.5 to 3% of the population taking the field against the largest military in the world at the time, and winning.

    I guess more gaseous stank was expelled from your backside and it sounded like "majority" to you, so you ran with it. Far from a valid point in any case though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    Far from significant.
    Please allow me to quote a poster from this very thread who I'm sure unintentionally spoke for me in response to the "significance" of an armed America:

    Your assumptions run amazingly deep and wide, and have no backing in fact whatsoever.
    LOL.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #62
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    Blues, you will go blue in the face arguing with him as he will never concede. As for the 4.7 million figure, you have to wonder how they could be so far off in thinking that 2008 is equal to 2016. Florida passed 1 million licenses a couple years ago and it is claimed that that is only about one tenth of the population. During the revolution, only 10% of the population supported it directly so that would equal 32 million supporters with maybe the same 1 to 3% as active fighters. A fight does not just rely on the fighters but also in logistics. They can ask the military about that but you know the answer to that yourself.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    Blues, you will go blue in the face arguing with him as he will never concede. As for the 4.7 million figure, you have to wonder how they could be so far off in thinking that 2008 is equal to 2016. Florida passed 1 million licenses a couple years ago and it is claimed that that is only about one tenth of the population. During the revolution, only 10% of the population supported it directly so that would equal 32 million supporters with maybe the same 1 to 3% as active fighters. A fight does not just rely on the fighters but also in logistics. They can ask the military about that but you know the answer to that yourself.
    Hey, great to see you 645. Yeah, I was just bored so I figured I'd throw the pup a chew-toy. My blue healer goes nuts for tug-o'-wars with one of those ropes with a handle (for dad) on one end. He growls and snarls and shakes his head violently while he's tuggin' on the toy, but he's really the sweetest, friendliest, most lovable little cupcake on the planet who looks so forward to his play-time that I just can't resist giving him another chance to pretend he's the toughest guy in the house. I get a kick out of watching some of the verbal attack dogs around here do their thing too.

    As far as that 4.7 million number of permits goes, if it came from the link I posted to above, that was actually a number calculated between 1999 and 2008, and it included every kind of gun-related permit issued across the country whether carry permit, purchase permit, owner's permit (yes, really, there are such things in some jurisdictions), Class III permit (and other NFA items I guess), and since 2008 there have been ammo purchase permits and standard-capacity magazine registrations/permits required in CT at least, and I think in a handful of other commie states as well.

    Anyway, the paper in that link was never published by the government even though the DOJ commissioned it and something quasi-government called the "NCJRS" compiled it. I imagine DOJ extracted some things to use in other publications, but I didn't find anything else with the 4.7 stat in a couple of variable-worded searches. Like I said though, I might be wrong about where it came from, but regardless, it's meaningless to how many carry permits were in the US in 2008, which was the assertion of Robgmn that I first responded to, and then responded again to above.

    How's your plantar fasciitis doin'? Mine has all but disappeared, thank the Good Lord above. Took over three years, but it only threatens to rear its ugly head every once in a great while now, but never really blows up anymore. Hope all is well with you and yours. Wish you were around more, but I can think of lots of reasons why old-timers have faded away. Know you're missed in any case, and take care 'til next time.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    It's amazing you can say that after the drubbing I gave you for your assumptions in the following little gem of a post:



    Allow me to drub some more: First, where did you get that 4.7 million figure from, and are you confident enough in its accuracy to provide a link so we can verify our own confidence in it for ourselves? I'm gonna bet it came from here, which, if it did, is just as irrelevant to the "point" you attempted to make as everything else you said, but maybe I'm wrong. If so, please provide a link to where that figure came from.

    Second, the total population of the United States is a wholly irrelevant factoid when it comes to figuring percentages of eligible permission slip holders. In 2010 (that's a Census Bureau link, so save all your ridiculous "click-bait" and "profit-making" nonsense), 24% of the population fell under the age of 18, whose numbers should be disregarded within your equations, along with the 19 and 20-year-olds who don't qualify under the 21 age-limit for permission slip issuance in most, if not all, states that require them.

    Third, in 2010 there were only 308,745,538 people accounted for in that year's Census according to the same link above. It's hard to imagine that in 2008 12 million more could be known to be accurate. Census estimates for 2015 (most recent available data, again, from the Census Bureau) were 321,418,820 million, so not only is the total population and resulting sum of total permit holders parts of your calculations egregiously inflated by not accounting for ineligibility of more than 20% of the population, but your 320 million in 2008 baseline is off by a significant percentage to boot.

    You'd have actually made your point better, and maintained the moral authority to be demanding accuracy, documentation, links and backing up with facts what other people say, if you bothered to fact-check the numbers that you obviously accepted from an unreliable source, or simply pulled out of your backside as intellectually vapid people are wont to do. Your ostensible point being that there aren't enough people in the US who are both armed and willing to engage the government in battle. By using the correct and verifiable numbers, you'd have ended up with literally millions less than the 4.7 million you came up with by accepting the gaseous stank coming out of your backside!

    LOL Man, you guys slay me with how easy it is to show how little you know about what you don't know, and you know what? The answer to that question is, "No, you don't know what either!" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.



    Which reminds me, I asked you before what a "majority" of the overall population of the United States has to do with prosecuting a war of any description? No war in the history of the world has ever had the majority of the overall population engaged in actually fighting it, and many wars have been won by minuscule minorities of The People, including our own Revolutionary War where estimates ranged from only 1.5 to 3% of the population taking the field against the largest military in the world at the time, and winning.

    I guess more gaseous stank was expelled from your backside and it sounded like "majority" to you, so you ran with it. Far from a valid point in any case though.



    Please allow me to quote a poster from this very thread who I'm sure unintentionally spoke for me in response to the "significance" of an armed America:



    LOL.

    Blues
    You couldn't give me a drubbing if I had my IQ reduced 50% by a frontal lobectomy.

    Point by point:

    CCP info comes from Crime Prevention Research Center http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/...ted-States.pdf

    The total population of the US is ENTIRELY relevant when discussion the number of CCP holders in relation to the population. You may not realize it, but the word "population" is NOT limited to people who are eligible for a CCP. It is actually comprised of ALL people who live here.
    You can verify that with the census bureau if you think I am wrong.

    You are correct that I used the current population number of >320,000,000 rather than the 2008 population of 304,000,000. That "egregious" error changes the percentage to 1.54. An incredible difference, for sure (said with much sarcasm as it means 64.6 non-permitted people for every one permitted versus 68 non-permitted for every one permitted. Staggering).

    You are under an assumption (as wrong as wrong can be) that all of the CCP holders int he US are a "force" to be reckoned with in regards to an attack by an army. What exactly is the organization of this "force"? When attacked by an army, who is your commander, or who are you commander of? What is the agreed-upon gathering place for your particular CCP militia to map out your battle plan? What weapons do you have aside from guns that give you superior firepower to any government-supported army? Who pays your family expenses while you are away from your job taking on the opposing army? How many are in your militia? How many in your militia are trained in military tactics and combat? WIll you all travel to the point of battle, or will you wait for it to come to you (i.e. assume a state-by-state sweep)?
    These are all important factors in explaining to me how the CCP holders will win the hypothetical battle.

    You accuse me of blowing smoke out my posterior, but you sound a helluva lot like a mall ninja to me.
    You wanna' show your mettle? Put yourself into a mock battle against 10 well-trained soldiers. Share the results with us and explain fully your tactics that enabled you to win the battle.

    Answer the above questions, otherwise you have proven the gaseous stank is coming from your mouth, as it has done many times before.

    And if you're gonna' stand in defense of Oopsspec, you may want to convey to him the importance of factual info.
    Otherwise, you may look like a fool when he lies or is wholly incorrect and you back it up.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    -snip-
    You are under an assumption (as wrong as wrong can be) that all of the CCP holders int he US are a "force" to be reckoned with in regards to an attack by an army.-snip-
    And you are putting forth the flawed premise that only the group of citizens who are carry permit holders would resist. There are many folks who own guns but do not have carry permits that would still decide to actively resist.

    Do not discount the spirit of rebellion by armed individuals with or without carry permits... historically oppressive governments have taken that possible threat to it's power very seriously hence the desire of oppressive governments to disarm the populace.

    And do not forget what a small group of terrorists were able to accomplish armed with airplanes on this date 15 years ago. Take a moment to consider how that event changed our society in ways that continue to impact the lives of everyone.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And you are putting forth the flawed premise that only the group of citizens who are carry permit holders would resist. There are many folks who own guns but do not have carry permits that would still decide to actively resist.

    Do not discount the spirit of rebellion by armed individuals with or without carry permits... historically oppressive governments have taken that possible threat to it's power very seriously hence the desire of oppressive governments to disarm the populace.

    And do not forget what a small group of terrorists were able to accomplish armed with airplanes on this date 15 years ago. Take a moment to consider how that event changed our society in ways that continue to impact the lives of everyone.
    The points you bring up are not part of the discussion.
    If someone asks which car has a higher top speed, you discuss highest top speed. You don't add cornering ability and gas mileage to the discussion. If someone asks how you would defend yourself if attacked in a WalMart, you don't discuss your long rifle ownership unless you carry that long rifle daily.
    If you want to discuss how CCP holders will defeat the US military, you don't discuss non-CCP holders. THAT would be a discussion of how everyone in the US with a gun would do it. The discussion is not how the entire population would defend itself against (and defeat) the US military in a SHTF scenario.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You couldn't give me a drubbing if I had my IQ reduced 50% by a frontal lobectomy.
    Sure I could. I already have once, and I'm about to do it again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    CCP info comes from Crime Prevention Research Center http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/...ted-States.pdf
    Well that's funny, because this link says there are 11.1 million permit holders and that report is current to March of 2014, while this is what you said before:

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    In 2008, there were 4.7 million permits to carry issued in the US.
    So which is it Mr. HalfIQ, 11.1mil permit holders or 4.7mil permit holders? Info current to 2008, or info current to 2014?

    To add to the bogus nature of the original post of yours that I first responded to, Lott et al poo-poo their own 11.1mil estimate as being significantly too low a number for several reasons that you should already know if you actually read the link you provided as a source for your bogus numbers, which, quite obviously, you haven't. When you actually do read the source you erroneously claim your numbers came from, you will find that that 11.1mil estimate represents 4.8% of the total population as of March of 2014, making your calculation of 1.2% off by a factor of four. Maybe that means your estimate of your own IQ should be reduced to 75%, Mr. ThreeQuarterIQ? LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    The total population of the US is ENTIRELY relevant when discussion the number of CCP holders in relation to the population.
    Well, even if that were true as being demonstrative of the percentage of the total population who would resist gun bans (that was the "point" you were attempting to make in this post, which I was responding to), your numbers are ENTIRELY irrelevant to establishing those stats because, 1) You overestimated the total population by something like 12 million people, 2) You underestimated the percentage of permit holders by a factor of four, 3) You don't even know where you found that original number of 4.7mil permit holders to begin with, because it sure as heck ain't the John Lott paper you linked to in the post I'm replying to right now!

    The total population is only relevant when discussing the number of permit holders in the US if you start with the right number of the total population and calculate the right number of permit holders based on the right number of total population. Your post was ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT to establish a single reliable statistic on the subject at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You may not realize it, but the word "population" is NOT limited to people who are eligible for a CCP. It is actually comprised of ALL people who live here.
    It is beyond obvious that you don't realize that the total percentage of permit holders in the US is ENTIRELY dependent upon every single one of them being eligible to hold a permit in the first place. John Lott et al knows that, and that's why they threw out the 24% of age-restricted ineligible people before they began their estimates and calculations. Again, you'd know that if you actually read the paper that you linked to and claim is the source of your ENTIRELY BOGUS numbers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You can verify that with the census bureau if you think I am wrong.
    Ditto Mr. OwesPointsIQ!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You are correct that I used the current population number of >320,000,000 rather than the 2008 population of 304,000,000. That "egregious" error changes the percentage to 1.54. An incredible difference, for sure (said with much sarcasm as it means 64.6 non-permitted people for every one permitted versus 68 non-permitted for every one permitted. Staggering).
    I'm also correct that the total number of permit holders is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT to the total number of GUN OWNERS who could be counted on to resist gun bans.

    Even at that though, you act like your 320mil ENTIRELY WRONG estimate for 2008 is insignificant when calculating reliable statistics. The actual number for 2008 (according to the Census Bureau) is 304,059,724. You based your so-called percentage statistic on a number that was 5.24% over the actual hard number for 2008. How can anything you say based on that number be valid to any actual "point" worth making? Garbage in, garbage out. And now I realize that I underestimated your hard-numbers error by about 4 million of total population when I said you were off by about 12mil. You were actually off by 15,940,276. Hardly insignificant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You are under an assumption (as wrong as wrong can be) that all of the CCP holders int he US are a "force" to be reckoned with in regards to an attack by an army.
    And your reading comprehension is off by a factor of 100%! I have said the number of permit holders is IRRELEVANT to estimating the number of armed citizens available to join a resistance movement, because the percentage of permit holders (approximately 4.8% of eligible total population according to the link you provided) is minuscule in comparison to the 50 - 80 million actual gun owners in this country. If you think you can find any realistically-arrived-at accurate number of gun owners that's any closer to the actual number then go for it, but unless your Google Fu is a whole lot better than your memory of where you actually got that BOGUS 4.7mil permit holder figure for 2008, you're not going to find a more accurate estimate, or range of estimates, that can be verified as reliable than 50 - 80 million.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    What exactly is the organization of this "force"? When attacked by an army, who is your commander, or who are you commander of? What is the agreed-upon gathering place for your particular CCP militia to map out your battle plan? What weapons do you have aside from guns that give you superior firepower to any government-supported army? Who pays your family expenses while you are away from your job taking on the opposing army? How many are in your militia? How many in your militia are trained in military tactics and combat? WIll you all travel to the point of battle, or will you wait for it to come to you (i.e. assume a state-by-state sweep)?
    These are all important factors in explaining to me how the CCP holders will win the hypothetical battle.
    Your inability to understand the numbers and stats you post with such wild erroneous abandon, is eclipsed only by the depth of ignorance you display in knowing the first thing about the subjects of which you speak.* Permission slip holders have not one single thing to do with the number of armed Americans. The government whose boots you constantly lick knows that, why don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You accuse me of blowing smoke out my posterior, but you sound a helluva lot like a mall ninja to me.
    Looks like you're ready for (another) vacation, but even if that name-calling could legitimately be applied to me, I'd be a mall ninja who knows where his info comes from, links to it most of the time without having to be asked, can calculate percentages and demographics off of the baseline numbers accurately, and recognizes when a beyond-ignorant simpleton can do none of those things. As to that last item, here's a real easy test to see if you're capable of recognizing same: Go look in a mirror.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    You wanna' show your mettle? Put yourself into a mock battle against 10 well-trained soldiers. Share the results with us and explain fully your tactics that enabled you to win the battle.
    We aren't discussing my mettle or anything having to do with militias, training, mock battles or anything other than the BOGUS numbers your insipid, brain-dead backside typed into this forum in a wholly FAILED attempt to look smarter than you are, or could ever hope to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    Answer the above questions, otherwise you have proven the gaseous stank is coming from your mouth, as it has done many times before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    And if you're gonna' stand in defense of Oopsspec, you may want to convey to him the importance of factual info.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....Gasp.. ....OH MY GOODNESS - I CAN'T BREATHE! ....... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    Otherwise, you may look like a fool when he lies or is wholly incorrect and you back it up.
    I would say that you should know what it's like to look like a fool, but obviously you don't, but do though. (It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma (Winston Churchill) - see if you can decode it to know what I think of your suggestion that anything I've said in this thread makes me look like a "fool.")

    Blues
    Last edited by BluesStringer; 09-11-2016 at 02:03 PM. Reason: *Took out a word that might've earned me a "vaction" and replaced it with a rules-compliant sentence.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. It is amazing how people with a will , untrained and ill-equipped can hold off a modern well equipped force.
    Just look at Nam and the mid east and even some areas of South America & Mexico.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robgmn View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And you are putting forth the flawed premise that only the group of citizens who are carry permit holders would resist. There are many folks who own guns but do not have carry permits that would still decide to actively resist.

    Do not discount the spirit of rebellion by armed individuals with or without carry permits... historically oppressive governments have taken that possible threat to it's power very seriously hence the desire of oppressive governments to disarm the populace.

    And do not forget what a small group of terrorists were able to accomplish armed with airplanes on this date 15 years ago. Take a moment to consider how that event changed our society in ways that continue to impact the lives of everyone.
    The points you bring up are not part of the discussion.
    If someone asks which car has a higher top speed, you discuss highest top speed. You don't add cornering ability and gas mileage to the discussion. If someone asks how you would defend yourself if attacked in a WalMart, you don't discuss your long rifle ownership unless you carry that long rifle daily.
    If you want to discuss how CCP holders will defeat the US military, you don't discuss non-CCP holders. THAT would be a discussion of how everyone in the US with a gun would do it. The discussion is not how the entire population would defend itself against (and defeat) the US military in a SHTF scenario.
    Yeah sure. Try to limit the discussion to only what you want to talk about hoping if the parameters are limited your argument will hold water never understanding that the parameters you set are not even close to the true conditions that apply. In other words you would limit the discussion to only what you think are important conditions. Sorry bud, but limiting the discussion to only how permit holders wouldn't be able to resist an army doesn't give the full picture of how an army would be resisted simply because you are not taking into consideration the entire population of gun owners and the percentage of those, permit holders and non permit holders included, who would resist.

    Or are you going to also tell Blues that his response in post #67 where he mentions the total number of gun owners who might resist is also not part of the discussion?

    But then you are reaching for excuses to justify your decision to submit hoping other people will give you props for it.

    If it comes to a SHTF situation I sincerely hope those who would submit with a whimper get the hell out of the way of those who are willing to resist and honor all of those who have lost their lives to protect the freedoms that so many take for granted today.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Yeah sure. Try to limit the discussion to only what you want to talk about hoping if the parameters are limited your argument will hold water never understanding that the parameters you set are not even close to the true conditions that apply. In other words you would limit the discussion to only what you think are important conditions. Sorry bud, but limiting the discussion to only how permit holders wouldn't be able to resist an army doesn't give the full picture of how an army would be resisted simply because you are not taking into consideration the entire population of gun owners and the percentage of those, permit holders and non permit holders included, who would resist.

    Or are you going to also tell Blues that his response in post #67 where he mentions the total number of gun owners who might resist is also not part of the discussion?

    But then you are reaching for excuses to justify your decision to submit hoping other people will give you props for it.

    If it comes to a SHTF situation I sincerely hope those who would submit with a whimper get the hell out of the way of those who are willing to resist and honor all of those who have lost their lives to protect the freedoms that so many take for granted today.
    All credit to Ringo, but Rob is making the definitive case for the notion that, "Liberals Always Manipulate The Truth. Never Let Them Set The Terms of Debate."
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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