Five Fast Gun Reforms President Trump Will Sign Into Law - Page 5
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Thread: Five Fast Gun Reforms President Trump Will Sign Into Law

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    Keep ignoring my post 34 and what the ATF has to say about it.
    How about you extract and put in summary form all the data and statistics that can be had from that link? It's little more than an opinion piece from NPR that the NPR author(s) extrapolated from some report they saw whatever assertions sounded kinda like statistics, but really weren't, and then proceeded to make it sound like it was actual statistical analysis, which it wasn't by a long-shot. I read the whole thing trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you could/would recognize the difference between opinion and statistics, but no real data or statistics were ever asserted in the uber-liberal, anti-Second-Amendment NPR opinion piece. You should be thankful that Rhino ignored it, and me too, because it would be easy to prove how foolish it was relying on that link in establishing any scientific, objective truth concerning where criminals get their guns, which BTW, is not a majority by straw purchases. FAIL.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    How about you extract and put in summary form all the data and statistics that can be had from that link? It's little more than an opinion piece from NPR that the NPR author(s) extrapolated from some report they saw whatever assertions sounded kinda like statistics, but really weren't, and then proceeded to make it sound like it was actual statistical analysis, which it wasn't by a long-shot. I read the whole thing trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you could/would recognize the difference between opinion and statistics, but no real data or statistics were ever asserted in the uber-liberal, anti-Second-Amendment NPR opinion piece. You should be thankful that Rhino ignored it, and me too, because it would be easy to prove how foolish it was relying on that link in establishing any scientific, objective truth concerning where criminals get their guns, which BTW, is not a majority by straw purchases. FAIL.

    Blues
    It's a short piece, how about you stop crying over the Real ID Act of 2005 that showed you to be a blatant lier and just read what the ATF learned from their study?

  4. #43
    National Concealed Carry Reciprocity
    .
    "There is significant momentum towards establishing national concealed carry reciprocity in all 50 states. President Trump, working with a Republican-controlled
    .
    House and Senate, should be able to get this passed into law within the first 90 days. There are four different bills to choose from in the House and Senate."

    I look forward to the day this is "the law of the land", just as a drivers license is accepted in all states. For those who are against these bills, it is like saying you think a drivers license should only drivers the right to drive in the issued state, which is silly. None of the versions of these bills changes the laws of the state. If carrying on a permit from your home state you are still required to follow the laws of the state you are carrying in. Just like you have to obey the laws of driving in the state you are in everywhere. This is not a additional issued permit, it has no fee. In fact it abolishes the need for additional permits and fees as required now. No need to get that non-resident permit to travel/carry in other states. I have several permits in other state that permit me to carry in multiple states. This will be not only a savings to the gun owner, but eliminate the hassle of going through multiple permit applications and renewals over and over. Looks to me like a win-win for the gun owner. I will keep pushing for the day this is law.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    Keep ignoring my post 34 and what the ATF has to say about it.
    I'm sorry. I wasn't ignoring it. I just didn't see it. For continuity purpose, here it is again:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Those are from the first four links that came up in that search. It's very clear that most guns used by criminals do NOT come from straw buyers and corrupt FFLs as you claimed.
    The ATF disagrees: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...ocon/guns.html
    The linked article is not from the ATF. It's from PBS, and they're referencing a "frustrated" ATF agent. The article isn't written by that agent.

    The PBS article is based on an unpublished 1995 report by Julius Wachtel of the Los Angeles ATF field office. The PBS article mentions Jay Wachtel, which I'm assuming is the same person. Before even looking at the details in the report, it needs to be noted that the applicability of the report comes at least somewhat into question since all of this was prior to the National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) being created or made mandatory.

    The Frontline show at PBS is well known for distorting facts to support gun control, so I took a closer look at the report they reference. First, this report is based on Los Angeles only. It isn't a report on nationwide trends or statistics. Second, it doesn't say what PBS claims, or at least how they say it. In fact, it contradicts the PBS claims in passages such as this:

    While there are differences in interpretation, there is general agreement about two things: first, that there is a large secondary firearms market, characterized by unregulated private transactions between unlicensed persons; and second, that the covert, facilitative nature of these encounters makes them the favored source of guns for criminals (Beck et al., 1993; Decker and Pennell,1995; Rand, 1994; Sheley and Wright, 1993).
    (The primary market is licensed dealers, and includes straw purchases and corrupt dealers.)

    Wachtel states that primary market involvement with crime guns is under-researched, and he wants to "expand our knowledge' there. That's a perfectly noble goal, but notice that it's intended to expand knowledge. It wasn't attempting to prove anything, establish any causality, or give finite data on the percentage of crime guns obtained via the primary market. In fact, Wachtel acknowledges that being able to fully investigate primary market transactions is a practical impossibility.

    In a perfect study, teams of intrepid researchers would relentlessly track recovered firearms to their original source. Considering the daunting obstacles to doing just that, it is no surprise that most of what is known has been gathered by interviewing incarcerated gun possessors. Although data from self-reports have been enlightening, the quest to identify the origin of recovered firearms usually concludes with a sketchily operationalized category such as “from the street” and “family and friends”.
    The inability to establish definitive numbers like that is glaringly highlighted by the data set they used. They used gun trace data in the LA area. Gun trace data is widely known to be inaccurate for a number of significant reasons, not the least of which are that most crime guns are never traced, only about half of trace requests actually produce results, and trace data only tells you about the original purchase of a gun. Even the ATF has repeatedly stated that its trace data cannot be used to draw conclusions about patterns of criminal gun use or acquisition.

    Wachtel also used methods that made the translation of the data highly suspect. For instance, if a dealer had a lack of records, mistakes in records, or otherwise unreliable records, Wachtel classified them as a corrupt dealer, even though he freely acknowledges that missing or incomplete records are not at all uncommon among all gun dealers.

    But lest I be considered as coming down too harshly on Wachtel, even he admits the data is lacking.

    While there were attempts to avoid introducing bias, our selection process obviously left much to be desired.
    Apparently NPR failed to bring that into account before making false proclamations about Wachtel's findings. They also failed to notice the plethora of information in academia, and even at ATF, about how unreliable gun trace data is for reaching conclusions or establishing trends. Or did they simply choose to ignore it?
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    The linked article is not from the ATF.
    It doesn't need to be.

    So there goes your whole post.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    It doesn't need to be.

    So there goes your whole post.
    LOL! You obviously didn't read it, so there goes yours. And your implication that information from any source would be valid is highly amusing. But I'm familiar with the principle of just dismissing an argument rather than admitting you've lost it, so it's understandable.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  8. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    You obviously didn't read it
    I read the article I cited in it's entierty before using it. Please stop trying to lie about others.

  9. #48
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    Gun-Rights Backers Vow to 'Go on Offense' During Trump Years


    Firearms enthusiasts who embraced Donald Trump's campaign and his full-throated support of the Second Amendment are expecting a sweeping expansion of gun rights under his administration and a Congress firmly in Republican hands.

    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    The linked article is not from the ATF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshell View Post
    It doesn't need to be.
    Of course it needs to be from the ATF if you're portraying the link as speaking for the ATF. The link spoke for PBS, not the ATF, and as Rhino said, was based on one agent's unpublished report that was written before NICS was even a law.

    You never tire of making yourself look like the kind of person who it is now against the rules to tell the truth about, but a good hint is that you make yourself look like a word that begins with "i" and ends with "diot."

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Of course it needs to be from the ATF if you're portraying the link as speaking for the ATF. The link spoke for PBS, not the ATF, and as Rhino said, was based on one agent's unpublished report that was written before NICS was even a law.

    You never tire of making yourself look like the kind of person who it is now against the rules to tell the truth about, but a good hint is that you make yourself look like a word that begins with "i" and ends with "diot."

    Blues
    The artical was an interview with the ATF investigator.

    It's as if I linked to a YouTube video of this investigator speaking and you said it wasn't good enough because it was YouTube and not the ATF.

    You're being obtuse.

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