People say alcohol and guns don't mix. What about drugs and guns? - Page 2
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Thread: People say alcohol and guns don't mix. What about drugs and guns?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    Just as Jesus used unleavened bread to represent His body at the last supper, He also used unfermented wine to represent His blood. Leaven and fermentation represent sin in the Bible, and the body and blood of Christ would not have any sin in them.
    So, can you explain then why the Catholic Church uses fermented wine for the Holy Eucharist? And you might want to read a little bit closer about Jesus turning water into wine as his first miracle. That wasn't grape juice being served at that wedding.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #12
    Protestant religions that hate alcohol have twisted this "wine" thing into "unfermented". That is not possible. However, they still do it.

    Nobody anciently carried a bunch of grapes around with them. And grapes are not ripe 24/7/365. But Protestants think they are.

  4. #13
    On the topic of dope, as opposed to alcoholic beverages, in ancient times there was opium in Asia and hashish in the Mediterranean.

    Moses and/or Jesus and/or the prophets, apostles, and evangelists (a Greek word for missionaries) never once mentioned dope.

    Therefore it is hard to judge whether dope is a sin or not. But most states have statutes treating intoxication from dope the same as intoxication from alcohol.

    And my State will pull your CFP if you are ever caught with dope. Then you can kiss the CFP goodbye.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    So, can you explain then why the Catholic Church uses fermented wine for the Holy Eucharist? And you might want to read a little bit closer about Jesus turning water into wine as his first miracle. That wasn't grape juice being served at that wedding.
    No, I can't explain why the Catholic Church does anything. I'm not a Catholic.

    At the wedding, Jesus wasn't using that wine to represent His blood. He only used the wine drunk at His last Passover for that example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    Protestant religions that hate alcohol have twisted this "wine" thing into "unfermented". That is not possible. However, they still do it.

    Nobody anciently carried a bunch of grapes around with them. And grapes are not ripe 24/7/365. But Protestants think they are.
    Not speaking for the Protestants but:

    The Creator of the universe and everything in it, and Who changed water into wine at the beginning of His earthly ministry, could certainly provide unfermented wine/grape juice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    On the topic of dope, as opposed to alcoholic beverages, in ancient times there was opium in Asia and hashish in the Mediterranean.

    Moses and/or Jesus and/or the prophets, apostles, and evangelists (a Greek word for missionaries) never once mentioned dope.

    Therefore it is hard to judge whether dope is a sin or not. But most states have statutes treating intoxication from dope the same as intoxication from alcohol.

    ....
    The Bible doesn't have a list of illicit drugs by name. It does have the principle that a believer's body is to be kept pure (1 Corinthians 6:19–20). Also, believers' minds are to be kept clear in order to carry out their missions in life, and to be alert to the wiles of Satan.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    No, I can't explain why the Catholic Church does anything. I'm not a Catholic.

    At the wedding, Jesus wasn't using that wine to represent His blood. He only used the wine drunk at His last Passover for that example.
    I don't suppose you can explain why Lutherans use fermented wine for communion either, then, because you are Lutheran?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    Not speaking for the Protestants but:

    The Creator of the universe and everything in it, and Who changed water into wine at the beginning of His earthly ministry, could certainly provide unfermented wine/grape juice.
    Jesus certainly could have changed water into grape juice at the wedding. But the Bible indicates that he did not. The Bible indicates that he created fermented wine - which was of much better quality than was previously served:

    John 2
    10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

    The NIV states it even better:
    10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

    The Bible does not indicate whether the wine at the last supper was fermented or not. However, in my limited research it appears that the Jewish tradition is to imbibe fermented wine at Passover:

    Passover Wine - The Royal Beverage - Passover

    Why is it permitted to drink wine on Passover when it is fermented with yeast? - Passover

    The idea that alcohol is inherently evil and prohibited by the Bible is simply not substantiated by the Bible itself. The Bible warns against consumption in excess. Just like the Bible does not prohibit a person from being rich - but there are cautions in the Bible regarding lust for money and the dangers that being rich may pose to a person.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I don't suppose you can explain why Lutherans use fermented wine for communion either, then, because you are Lutheran?
    I'm not a Lutheran so I can't speak for them.

    Jesus certainly could have changed water into grape juice at the wedding. But the Bible indicates that he did not. The Bible indicates that he created fermented wine - which was of much better quality than was previously served:

    John 2
    10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

    The NIV states it even better:
    10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

    The Bible does not indicate whether the wine at the last supper was fermented or not. However, in my limited research it appears that the Jewish tradition is to imbibe fermented wine at Passover:

    Passover Wine - The Royal Beverage - Passover

    Why is it permitted to drink wine on Passover when it is fermented with yeast? - Passover
    Again, the Lord's Last Supper was a specific event when Jesus used that bread to represent His body and that wine to represent His blood.

    The idea that alcohol is inherently evil and prohibited by the Bible is simply not substantiated by the Bible itself. The Bible warns against consumption in excess. Just like the Bible does not prohibit a person from being rich - but there are cautions in the Bible regarding lust for money and the dangers that being rich may pose to a person.
    My post #9 was specific.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post


    My post #9 was specific.
    Both specific and erroneous.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    No, I can't explain why the Catholic Church does anything. I'm not a Catholic.

    At the wedding, Jesus wasn't using that wine to represent His blood. He only used the wine drunk at His last Passover for that example.
    If you think Jesus or his apostles ran out and squeezed a bunch of grapes for their beverage at the Passover supper on Holy Thursday the night of his betrayal by Judas Iscariot, I think this kind of thinking is infantile, illogical, and childish.

    But it is a free country and therefore any kind of thinking is A-OK.

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