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Thread: People say alcohol and guns don't mix. What about drugs and guns?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    But everyone is supposed to take your word on what you post?

    Yet, you do say that God is the father of Jesus, making Him the only begotten Son of God?
    It takes several years to learn Greek.

    I have told you what it says in Greek.

    You can take it or leave it.

  2.   
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    It takes several years to learn Greek.

    I have told you what it says in Greek.

    You can take it or leave it.
    People say alcohol and guns don't mix.  What about drugs and guns?-manurespreader02.jpg
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  4. I gotta jump in on this. Aramaic had several words for "represents" but Jesus used the word "is" when saying this about His Body and His Blood.
    Not symbolic.
    Elsewhere the Jews get angry when it's said they must eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood. If the word had been "to represent" or "to symbolize" there would've been no cause for anger.

    Jesus' is truly present, not literally His human body/blood but His divine presence, in the Eucharist when the wine and host are consecrated.
    We do this in memory of Him as commanded.

    I'd recommend Catholic Answers' site at Home | Catholic Answers for detailed explanations.


    Sent from my iPhone using USA Carry

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    Not speaking for the Protestants but:

    The Creator of the universe and everything in it, and Who changed water into wine at the beginning of His earthly ministry, could certainly provide unfermented wine/grape juice.
    People say alcohol and guns don't mix.  What about drugs and guns?-527bfc396e26e4f619edd75a0ab62554.jpg

  6. #35
    There is no one living today that can attest to whether or not the wine at the Last Supper was fermented or not. Personally, I can see no reason to argue the point since, during the Eucharist today, one only has a sip of the wine which would be unable to impair a person at all. I found this information concerning the bread and wine at the Passover meal which I found interesting:

    "The bread and wine were not only symbolic; they were bread and wine that would have been eaten during a Passover meal. The bread at a Passover meal would have been unleavened bread, but what kind of wine would have been served at the Last Supper?

    The makers of the Vivino wine app wanted to know the answer to this question, so they went to religious expert Father Daniel Kendall of University of San Francisco and Dr. Patrick McGovern, scientific director of the Biomolecular Archaeology Project for Cuisine, Fermented Beverages and Health at the University of Pennsylvania Museum — and better known as the Indiana Jones of Ancient Ales, Wines, and Extreme Beverages.

    Their best-educated guess is that the wine would have been similar to modern-day Amarone, an Italian red wine made from grapes that have been dried before fermentation. It's basically wine made from raisins.


    Kendall and McGovern provided other details about the wine of Jesus' time and the type of wine that would have been served at The Last Supper:

    Winemaking was present since at least 4000 BC in Jerusalem. Vintners planted vines along rocky hillsides and carved out vats in the bedrock to serve as wine presses.
    The people of Jerusalem preferred rich, concentrated wines and were critical of watering down wine, which was common practice at the time.
    Wine was strong and frequently mixed with spices, fruits and especially tree resin as winemakers believed myrrh, frankincense and terebinth preserved wine and prevented spoilage.
    The Last Supper took place during Passover, so the wine would have needed to pair well with traditional Seder fare."

    To Catholics, at the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine, which to us, at the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become the body and blood of Jesus Christ, while remaining under the appearance of bread and wine. This is called transubstantiation. It is a difficult thing for some to believe but, if you aren't a Catholic, it needn't matter. We believe it.

    Different religions have their ways of taking communion, which in each, is their form of signifying the goodness of creation and to the Creator.

    I can't understand the argument over what name Jesus is referred to, by whichever translation one cares to use. It is nice that some have studied (?) Greek or any other language but if one studies all of the different names, it is apparent that we are all talking about the same person. One of the Greek names for Him has letters I can't reproduce on this computer but is supposedly pronounced [I]yay-soos.[/I] Sounds good to me, just as Joshua, Yehoshua, or the many other names mentioned in different texts.

    I think most are of agreement that, by whichever name you call Him, He is not only the Son of God, He is God. A triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If you disagree with that, you will have to go by your own interpretation and to your own satisfaction.

    What wine did Jesus drink at the Last Supper? | MNN - Mother Nature Network

    Yahushua is the true name of the Messiah

    "Jesus" in the early Greek Manuscripts

  7. #36
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    The Scriptures clearly state that Jesus turned the water into wine, not grape juice. It was the master of the banquet that remarked about how good the wine tasted, so lets get real, does anyone really believe that the master of the banquet didn't know the difference between wine and grape juice? We're not talking about children here.
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to HELL"

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    The Scriptures clearly state that Jesus turned the water into wine, not grape juice. It was the master of the banquet that remarked about how good the wine tasted, so lets get real, does anyone really believe that the master of the banquet didn't know the difference between wine and grape juice? We're not talking about children here.
    Two different events, two different batches of wine. My point was, if Jesus could turn water into celebratory wine (such as at the wedding feast), He could just as well provide an unfermented sacrificial wine (such as at the Last Supper).

    Since Jesus's body had no sin in it, the wine and bread of His Last Supper would be the same--no sin in them, which meant not contaminated by forms of leaven.

    Jesus can do anything He wants except go against His own holy character. That's wonderful! He's the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow, unchanging and everlasting. :)

  9. #38
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    Jesus Christ has many names/titles identifying Him in the Bible.

  10. #39
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    Wine is called wine because it has been fermented.The main reason why most people are going to say unfermented is because they have a hard time believing that since Jesus delivers men from drunkenness why would He have turned something that they consider sinful to be served. Again, lets get real, wine in and of itself is not sinful, only getting drunk is sinful. And drinking a glass of wine can hardly be called drunkenness, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his ailing stomach. Jesus certainly turned water into wine and ordered it be served, if it was only grape juice, the men drinking it would have spat it back out. Regardless of the "event", it wasn't grape juice, because the Holy Ghost is not likened unto grape juice, it's likened unto wine, more specifically "new wine" because new wine is sweet and strong, powerful. When people say it's not wine (fermented) , I have to conclude that they are either ignorant of the Scriptures or they are heaping to themselves scholars with itching ears to change the meaning to fit their weak mind and their understanding of Jesus. If one doesn't understand something, don't try to change it, leave it alone until revelation comes.
    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be condemned to HELL"

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    Jesus Christ has many names/titles identifying Him in the Bible.
    That happens when there is an attempt to gather a number of short stories, written by a number of people over many years into anything coherent.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

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