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Thread: People say alcohol and guns don't mix. What about drugs and guns?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    That happens when there is an attempt to gather a number of short stories, written by a number of people over many years into anything coherent.
    No, it's because of His many glorious attributes.

    Just a few examples off the top of my head to start with:

    Jesus Christ

    Emmanuel

    Creator

    Redeemer

    Deliverer

    Savior

    Son of God

    Son of Man

    Second Adam

    Alpha and Omega

    Advocate

    Lamb of God

    Lion of Judah

    Good Shepherd

    Great Physician

    Bridegroom

    Lord of Lords

    King of Kings

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Wine is called wine because it has been fermented.The main reason why most people are going to say unfermented is because they have a hard time believing that since Jesus delivers men from drunkenness why would He have turned something that they consider sinful to be served.
    I can't speak for "most people" but I already stated my belief, and that wasn't it. In fact, this is the first time I ever heard or read that reason. Anyway, I would presume why other people do things.

    Again, lets get real, wine in and of itself is not sinful, only getting drunk is sinful. And drinking a glass of wine can hardly be called drunkenness, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his ailing stomach.
    There are plenty of substances today to which it's perfectly fine to turn to for medicinal purposes only but aren't for regular imbibing. Apparently Timothy wasn't a regular wine drinker or else he wouldn't need to be prompted to drink some for his stomach.

    Jesus certainly turned water into wine and ordered it be served, if it was only grape juice, the men drinking it would have spat it back out. Regardless of the "event", it wasn't grape juice, because the Holy Ghost is not likened unto grape juice, it's likened unto wine, more specifically "new wine" because new wine is sweet and strong, powerful. When people say it's not wine (fermented) , I have to conclude that they are either ignorant of the Scriptures or they are heaping to themselves scholars with itching ears to change the meaning to fit their weak mind and their understanding of Jesus. If one doesn't understand something, don't try to change it, leave it alone until revelation comes.
    I never said that the wedding wine was unfermented. That wasn't The Last Supper, and that miracle was for a totally different purpose. Context is important.

    I make no judgments about why people practice one thing or another. I can't see their hearts.


    Romans 14

    9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    That happens when there is an attempt to gather a number of short stories, written by a number of people over many years into anything coherent.
    On the contrary--it's the religions that have only one human author for their sacred writings that have more suspect documentation.

  5. #44
    Here are some more names:

    "What are the different names and titles of Jesus Christ?"

    Answer: There are some 200 names and titles of Christ found in the Bible. Following are some of the more prominent ones, organized in three sections relating to names that reflect the nature of Christ, His position in the tri-unity of God, and His work on earth on our behalf.

    The Nature of Christ
    Chief Cornerstone: (Ephesians 2:20) – Jesus is the cornerstone of the building which is His church. He cements together Jew and Gentile, male and female—all saints from all ages and places into one structure built on faith in Him which is shared by all.

    Firstborn over all creation: (Colossians 1:15) – Not the first thing God created, as some incorrectly claim, because verse 16 says all things were created through and for Christ. Rather, the meaning is that Christ occupies the rank and pre-eminence of the first-born over all things, that He sustains the most exalted rank in the universe; He is pre-eminent above all others; He is at the head of all things.

    Head of the Church: (Ephesians 1:22; 4:15; 5:23) – Jesus Christ, not a king or a pope, is the only supreme, sovereign ruler of the Church—those for whom He died and who have placed their faith in Him alone for salvation.

    Holy One: (Acts 3:14; Psalm 16:10) – Christ is holy, both in his divine and human nature, and the fountain of holiness to His people. By His death, we are made holy and pure before God.

    Judge: (Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:8) – The Lord Jesus was appointed by God to judge the world and to dispense the rewards of eternity.

    King of kings and Lord of lords: (1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16) – Jesus has dominion over all authority on the earth, over all kings and rulers, and none can prevent Him from accomplishing His purposes. He directs them as He pleases.

    Light of the World: (John 8:12) – Jesus came into a world darkened by sin and shed the light of life and truth through His work and His words. Those who trust in Him have their eyes opened by Him and walk in the light.

    Prince of peace: (Isaiah 9:6) – Jesus came not to bring peace to the world as in the absence of war, but peace between God and man who were separated by sin. He died to reconcile sinners to a holy God.

    Son of God: (Luke 1:35; John 1:49) – Jesus is the “only begotten of the Father” (John 1:14). Used 42 times in the New Testament, “Son of God” affirms the deity of Christ.

    Son of man: (John 5:27) – The phrase “Son of Man” emphasizes the humanity of Christ which exists alongside His divinity. It is also a messianic title (Daniel 7:13-14; Mark 14:63).

    Word: (John 1:1; 1 John 5:7-8) – The Word is the second Person of the triune God, who said it and it was done, who spoke all things out of nothing in the first creation, who was in the beginning with God the Father, and was God, and by whom all things were created.

    Word of God: (Revelation 19:12-13) – This is the name given to Christ that is unknown to all but Himself. It denotes the mystery of His divine person.

    Word of Life: (1 John 1:1) – Jesus not only spoke words that lead to eternal life, but according to this verse He is the very words of life, referring to the eternal life of joy and fulfillment which He provides.

    His position in the trinity
    Alpha and Omega: (Revelation 1:8; 22:13) – Jesus declared Himself to be the beginning and end of all things, a reference to no one but the true God. This statement of eternality could apply only to God.

    Emmanuel: (Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 1:23) – Literally “God with us.” Both Isaiah and Matthew affirm that the Christ who would be born in Bethlehem would be God Himself who came to earth in the form of a man to live among His people.

    I Am: (John 8:58, with Exodus 3:14) – When Jesus ascribed to Himself this title, the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy. They understood that He was declaring Himself to be the eternal God, the unchanging Yahweh of the Old Testament.

    Lord of All: (Acts 10:36) – Jesus is the sovereign ruler over the whole world and all things in it, of all the nations of the world, and particularly of the people of God's choosing, Gentiles as well as Jews.

    True God: (1 John 5:20) – This is a direct assertion that Jesus, being the true God, is not only divine, but is the Divine. Since the Bible teaches there is only one God, this can only be describing His nature as part of the triune God.

    His Work on earth
    Author and Perfecter of our Faith: (Hebrews 12:2) – Salvation is accomplished through the faith that is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9) and Jesus is the founder of our faith and the finisher of it as well. From first to last, He is the source and sustainer of the faith that saves us.

    Bread of Life: (John 6:35; 6:48) – Just as bread sustains life in the physical sense, Jesus is the Bread that gives and sustains eternal life. God provided manna in the wilderness to feed His people and He provided Jesus to give us eternal life through His body, broken for us.

    Bridegroom: (Matthew 9:15) – The picture of Christ as the Bridegroom and the Church as His Bride reveals the special relationship we have with Him. We are bound to each other in a covenant of grace that cannot be broken.

    Deliverer: (Romans 11:26) – Just as the Israelites needed God to deliver them from bondage to Egypt, so Christ is our Deliverer from the bondage of sin.

    Good Shepherd: (John 10:11,14) – In Bible times, a good shepherd was willing to risk his own life to protect his sheep from predators. Jesus laid down His life for His sheep, and He cares for and nurtures and feeds us.

    High Priest: (Hebrews 2:17) – The Jewish high priest entered the Temple once a year to make atonement for the sins of the people. The Lord Jesus performed that function for His people once for all at the cross.

    Lamb of God: (John 1:29) – God’s Law called for the sacrifice of a spotless, unblemished Lamb as an atonement for sin. Jesus became that Lamb led meekly to the slaughter, showing His patience in His sufferings and His readiness to die for His own.

    Mediator: (1 Timothy 2:5) – A mediator is one who goes between two parties to reconcile them. Christ is the one and only Mediator who reconciles men and God. Praying to Mary or the saints is idolatry because it bypasses this most important role of Christ and ascribes the role of Mediator to another.

    Rock: (1 Corinthians 10:4) – As life-giving water flowed from the rock Moses struck in the wilderness, Jesus is the Rock from which flow the living waters of eternal life. He is the Rock upon whom we build our spiritual houses, so that no storm can shake them.

    Resurrection and Life: (John 11:25) – Embodied within Jesus is the means to resurrect sinners to eternal life, just as He was resurrected from the grave. Our sin is buried with Him and we are resurrected to walk in newness of life.

    Savior: (Matthew 1:21; Luke 2:11) – He saves His people by dying to redeem them, by giving the Holy Spirit to renew them by His power, by enabling them to overcome their spiritual enemies, by sustaining them in trials and in death, and by raising them up at the last day.

    True Vine: (John 15:1) – The True Vine supplies all that the branches (believers) need to produce the fruit of the Spirit— the living water of salvation and nourishment from the Word.

    Way, Truth, Life: (John 14:6) – Jesus is the only path to God, the only Truth in a world of lies, and the only true source of eternal life. He embodies all three in both a temporal and an eternal sense.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/names-Jesus-Christ.html

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Here are some more names:

    "What are the different names and titles of Jesus Christ?"

    Answer: There are some 200 names and titles of Christ found in the Bible. Following are some of the more prominent ones, organized in three sections relating to names that reflect the nature of Christ, His position in the tri-unity of God, and His work on earth on our behalf.

    The Nature of Christ
    Chief Cornerstone: (Ephesians 2:20) – Jesus is the cornerstone of the building which is His church. He cements together Jew and Gentile, male and female—all saints from all ages and places into one structure built on faith in Him which is shared by all.

    Firstborn over all creation: (Colossians 1:15) – Not the first thing God created, as some incorrectly claim, because verse 16 says all things were created through and for Christ. Rather, the meaning is that Christ occupies the rank and pre-eminence of the first-born over all things, that He sustains the most exalted rank in the universe; He is pre-eminent above all others; He is at the head of all things.

    Head of the Church: (Ephesians 1:22; 4:15; 5:23) – Jesus Christ, not a king or a pope, is the only supreme, sovereign ruler of the Church—those for whom He died and who have placed their faith in Him alone for salvation.

    Holy One: (Acts 3:14; Psalm 16:10) – Christ is holy, both in his divine and human nature, and the fountain of holiness to His people. By His death, we are made holy and pure before God.

    Judge: (Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:8) – The Lord Jesus was appointed by God to judge the world and to dispense the rewards of eternity.

    King of kings and Lord of lords: (1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16) – Jesus has dominion over all authority on the earth, over all kings and rulers, and none can prevent Him from accomplishing His purposes. He directs them as He pleases.

    Light of the World: (John 8:12) – Jesus came into a world darkened by sin and shed the light of life and truth through His work and His words. Those who trust in Him have their eyes opened by Him and walk in the light.

    Prince of peace: (Isaiah 9:6) – Jesus came not to bring peace to the world as in the absence of war, but peace between God and man who were separated by sin. He died to reconcile sinners to a holy God.

    Son of God: (Luke 1:35; John 1:49) – Jesus is the “only begotten of the Father” (John 1:14). Used 42 times in the New Testament, “Son of God” affirms the deity of Christ.

    Son of man: (John 5:27) – The phrase “Son of Man” emphasizes the humanity of Christ which exists alongside His divinity. It is also a messianic title (Daniel 7:13-14; Mark 14:63).

    Word: (John 1:1; 1 John 5:7-8) – The Word is the second Person of the triune God, who said it and it was done, who spoke all things out of nothing in the first creation, who was in the beginning with God the Father, and was God, and by whom all things were created.

    Word of God: (Revelation 19:12-13) – This is the name given to Christ that is unknown to all but Himself. It denotes the mystery of His divine person.

    Word of Life: (1 John 1:1) – Jesus not only spoke words that lead to eternal life, but according to this verse He is the very words of life, referring to the eternal life of joy and fulfillment which He provides.

    His position in the trinity
    Alpha and Omega: (Revelation 1:8; 22:13) – Jesus declared Himself to be the beginning and end of all things, a reference to no one but the true God. This statement of eternality could apply only to God.

    Emmanuel: (Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 1:23) – Literally “God with us.” Both Isaiah and Matthew affirm that the Christ who would be born in Bethlehem would be God Himself who came to earth in the form of a man to live among His people.

    I Am: (John 8:58, with Exodus 3:14) – When Jesus ascribed to Himself this title, the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy. They understood that He was declaring Himself to be the eternal God, the unchanging Yahweh of the Old Testament.

    Lord of All: (Acts 10:36) – Jesus is the sovereign ruler over the whole world and all things in it, of all the nations of the world, and particularly of the people of God's choosing, Gentiles as well as Jews.

    True God: (1 John 5:20) – This is a direct assertion that Jesus, being the true God, is not only divine, but is the Divine. Since the Bible teaches there is only one God, this can only be describing His nature as part of the triune God.

    His Work on earth
    Author and Perfecter of our Faith: (Hebrews 12:2) – Salvation is accomplished through the faith that is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8-9) and Jesus is the founder of our faith and the finisher of it as well. From first to last, He is the source and sustainer of the faith that saves us.

    Bread of Life: (John 6:35; 6:48) – Just as bread sustains life in the physical sense, Jesus is the Bread that gives and sustains eternal life. God provided manna in the wilderness to feed His people and He provided Jesus to give us eternal life through His body, broken for us.

    Bridegroom: (Matthew 9:15) – The picture of Christ as the Bridegroom and the Church as His Bride reveals the special relationship we have with Him. We are bound to each other in a covenant of grace that cannot be broken.

    Deliverer: (Romans 11:26) – Just as the Israelites needed God to deliver them from bondage to Egypt, so Christ is our Deliverer from the bondage of sin.

    Good Shepherd: (John 10:11,14) – In Bible times, a good shepherd was willing to risk his own life to protect his sheep from predators. Jesus laid down His life for His sheep, and He cares for and nurtures and feeds us.

    High Priest: (Hebrews 2:17) – The Jewish high priest entered the Temple once a year to make atonement for the sins of the people. The Lord Jesus performed that function for His people once for all at the cross.

    Lamb of God: (John 1:29) – God’s Law called for the sacrifice of a spotless, unblemished Lamb as an atonement for sin. Jesus became that Lamb led meekly to the slaughter, showing His patience in His sufferings and His readiness to die for His own.

    Mediator: (1 Timothy 2:5) – A mediator is one who goes between two parties to reconcile them. Christ is the one and only Mediator who reconciles men and God. Praying to Mary or the saints is idolatry because it bypasses this most important role of Christ and ascribes the role of Mediator to another.

    Rock: (1 Corinthians 10:4) – As life-giving water flowed from the rock Moses struck in the wilderness, Jesus is the Rock from which flow the living waters of eternal life. He is the Rock upon whom we build our spiritual houses, so that no storm can shake them.

    Resurrection and Life: (John 11:25) – Embodied within Jesus is the means to resurrect sinners to eternal life, just as He was resurrected from the grave. Our sin is buried with Him and we are resurrected to walk in newness of life.

    Savior: (Matthew 1:21; Luke 2:11) – He saves His people by dying to redeem them, by giving the Holy Spirit to renew them by His power, by enabling them to overcome their spiritual enemies, by sustaining them in trials and in death, and by raising them up at the last day.

    True Vine: (John 15:1) – The True Vine supplies all that the branches (believers) need to produce the fruit of the Spirit— the living water of salvation and nourishment from the Word.

    Way, Truth, Life: (John 14:6) – Jesus is the only path to God, the only Truth in a world of lies, and the only true source of eternal life. He embodies all three in both a temporal and an eternal sense.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/names-Jesus-Christ.html
    Good list. :)

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Wine is called wine because it has been fermented.The main reason why most people are going to say unfermented is because they have a hard time believing that since Jesus delivers men from drunkenness why would He have turned something that they consider sinful to be served. Again, lets get real, wine in and of itself is not sinful, only getting drunk is sinful. And drinking a glass of wine can hardly be called drunkenness, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his ailing stomach. Jesus certainly turned water into wine and ordered it be served, if it was only grape juice, the men drinking it would have spat it back out. Regardless of the "event", it wasn't grape juice, because the Holy Ghost is not likened unto grape juice, it's likened unto wine, more specifically "new wine" because new wine is sweet and strong, powerful. When people say it's not wine (fermented) , I have to conclude that they are either ignorant of the Scriptures or they are heaping to themselves scholars with itching ears to change the meaning to fit their weak mind and their understanding of Jesus. If one doesn't understand something, don't try to change it, leave it alone until revelation comes.
    I sooo agree!

    I've seen and lived around alcoholics and witnessed the damage of their GLUTTONY firsthand. It's not the drinking of wine or any other beverage, but the overconsumption of that's a sin.

    It would also make sense to me that the preservation of grape juice by fermentation had a good side effect :).

    Sorry but this comment reminded me of people insisting that drinking one beer, or even a sip, is a sin. There were some folks from my mom's church at my wedding reception who actually used our pouring of wine for the wedding party as a time to show their dissent, turning up their holier than thou noses and walking out in unison. Guess they hadn't noticed the keg in the kitchen!

    Sorry for the tangent here, but I fail to get how some people can say that drinking a moderate amount of alcohol is a sin.
    I guess it makes some feel they are more "right" by insisting how wrong others are.

    Ah well, such is life :)


    USAF(Ret)

  8. #47
    Reba, OG thanks for proving my point.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    Reba, OG thanks for proving my point.
    Sorry XD, you have no point to prove. In all of your rants you are speaking as a natural, or carnal man, one who has not yet been given the powers of discernment of spiritual things by the Holy Spirit. That is a gift of God. You are not unique in your unbelief and the Bible speaks directly to those who do not believe:"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Cor.2:14."

    Incoherent short stories? No, only your inability to understand them. Be that as it may, we accept those stories and can see their relevance and continuity. Maybe you should read some of them some time. You might change your mind. Or we can at least hope!

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmiddySW View Post
    I sooo agree!

    I've seen and lived around alcoholics and witnessed the damage of their GLUTTONY firsthand. It's not the drinking of wine or any other beverage, but the overconsumption of that's a sin.

    It would also make sense to me that the preservation of grape juice by fermentation had a good side effect :).

    Sorry but this comment reminded me of people insisting that drinking one beer, or even a sip, is a sin. There were some folks from my mom's church at my wedding reception who actually used our pouring of wine for the wedding party as a time to show their dissent, turning up their holier than thou noses and walking out in unison. Guess they hadn't noticed the keg in the kitchen!

    Sorry for the tangent here, but I fail to get how some people can say that drinking a moderate amount of alcohol is a sin.
    I guess it makes some feel they are more "right" by insisting how wrong others are.

    Ah well, such is life :)


    USAF(Ret)
    My dad died too young from cirrhosis of the liver, which he got from his drinking. No one who takes that first drink of alcohol knows how many ounces or repeated times it could take before they become hooked or damage is done to their bodies. No one starts drinking with the intent of dying from the consumption of alcohol.

    Aside from that, we are all responsible for our own lives. I'm confident in my own relationship with the Lord and my eternal destination, so I leave it to the Lord to do the convicting of other people about any wrongness of actions. I don't assume or try to guess how others feel when they make their statements.

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Sorry XD, you have no point to prove. In all of your rants you are speaking as a natural, or carnal man, one who has not yet been given the powers of discernment of spiritual things by the Holy Spirit. That is a gift of God. You are not unique in your unbelief and the Bible speaks directly to those who do not believe:"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Cor.2:14."
    Yep, the very same as the natural or carnal med that wrote these tales in the first place. Of course legend, lore, superstition and the ignorance of the time period contributed a great deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Incoherent short stories? No, only your inability to understand them. Be that as it may, we accept those stories and can see their relevance and continuity. Maybe you should read some of them some time. You might change your mind. Or we can at least hope!
    Why read what I know to be nothing more than the legend, lore, superstition of the day, well seasoned with the level of ignorance of the day. I understand why man didn't know where the sun went at night, the same way 'physicians' of the day thought blood letting or boring holes in the skull would benefit the patient. You would run from a doctor that followed such ancient ignorance.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

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