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Thread: ISIS having access to US passports

  1. #21
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    Sigh. While we are on this topic I may as well bring it back down to ground level. Currently the visa waiver program is still in place (the visa interview waiver program is being discontinued, but that is not the same thing). The visa waiver program, which is still as of today very much in place, allows terrorists to enter the United States without a visa from places like France, Germany, and the Netherlands.

    This is not a good thing, so I (and others) are advocating for some reform to the visa waiver program.

    Just thought I'd point that out, adding some facts to the conversation here..

    O.k., 3, 2, 1...

    ... commence screeching from people who say that "BUT BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP ISN'T LETTING ANYONE INTO THE COUNTRY OMG"

    As for immigration authority, that comes from a mixture of (TL,DR:) Congress and the President.

    Don't like it? Don't want to comply with the law? Tough. Hire a lobbyist. Write a letter to Congress. Take your issue to the courts. But until then you get to pay the immigration fees and comply with the law. (Or like in the case of CA, not, and get punished for it by having your Byrne JAG grants yanked.)

    Don't believe me? Think I am wrong and the "Ninth Circuit will prove freethink to be an idiot?" O.K., wait til Gorsuch is seated (his hearings will be in the first few days of March and he will be seated before the Easter recess). The immigration decisions that come out of the U.S. Supreme Court will be 5-4 in favor of the President and in favor of the current (mostly Republican) Congress.

    Deal with it!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    The President of the Unites States has exactly zero authority to mandate the use of E-Verify by private businesses using an executive order. This is a republic, not a kingdom. Congress has to enact a law to do that.

    Since September 2009, all federal government contractors have to use E-Verify, otherwise they can't do business with the federal government.

    The federal government itself uses its own, more complex verification process. Part of that includes sending your PII to China for backup purposes.
    I really don't care who is in charge of e-verify. I was only commenting on the fact that the judiciary is going to step on everything he does.

    Of course you knew that.


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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
    I really don't care who is in charge of e-verify. I was only commenting on the fact that the judiciary is going to step on everything he does.

    Of course you knew that.
    Your comment was ill-informed in terms of how our republic works. You specifically mentioned that President Trump "hopefully checks with the federal judiciary before attempting any executive action." I am just telling you that he has zero authority to perform such executive action and the federal judiciary would, rightfully so, check him on that and strike such action down. This has nothing to do about "who is in charge of E-Verify". This has to do with who writes laws. The Constitution gives the President zero authority to write laws. We are not a kingdom.

    FYI: Some states already require using E-Verify:

    ISIS having access to US passports-e_verify_map550px102011.jpg

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by freethink View Post
    Sigh. While we are on this topic I may as well bring it back down to ground level. Currently the visa waiver program is still in place (the visa interview waiver program is being discontinued, but that is not the same thing). The visa waiver program, which is still as of today very much in place, allows terrorists to enter the United States without a visa from places like France, Germany, and the Netherlands.

    This is not a good thing, so I (and others) are advocating for some reform to the visa waiver program.

    Just thought I'd point that out, adding some facts to the conversation here..

    O.k., 3, 2, 1...

    ... commence screeching from people who say that "BUT BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP ISN'T LETTING ANYONE INTO THE COUNTRY OMG"

    As for immigration authority, that comes from a mixture of (TL,DR:) Congress and the President.

    Don't like it? Don't want to comply with the law? Tough. Hire a lobbyist. Write a letter to Congress. Take your issue to the courts. But until then you get to pay the immigration fees and comply with the law. (Or like in the case of CA, not, and get punished for it by having your Byrne JAG grants yanked.)

    Don't believe me? Think I am wrong and the "Ninth Circuit will prove freethink to be an idiot?" O.K., wait til Gorsuch is seated (his hearings will be in the first few days of March and he will be seated before the Easter recess). The immigration decisions that come out of the U.S. Supreme Court will be 5-4 in favor of the President and in favor of the current (mostly Republican) Congress.

    Deal with it!
    The visa waiver program allows anyone with a passport from these countries to enter the US when they show up at the border. All foreigners entering the US via the visa waiver program are pre-screened through the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA). An e-Passport is needed for ESTA. Visits are up to a maximum of 90 days per year.

    In reciprocity, US citizens are allowed to enter these countries with a passport when they show up at their borders. The visa waiver program is based on bi-lateral agreements that facilitates cooperation of law enforcement agencies between those countries.

    We can certainly go back to the stone age and completely abandon the visa waiver program. This would have a huge economical impact for no additional security. After all, we already flag people that we know are dangerous, prevent them from entering the US and even prevent them from boarding a plane to the US. The lack of cooperation of law enforcement agencies between those countries would mean that we would know less about them.

    ...

    As for your second part of your post, the term "immigration authority" is being used in the media with no relation to the actual laws. The President has zero authority to write law, that includes immigration law. The President also has zero authority to use his existing authority to enforce existing law, such as the immigration laws on the books, to violate other laws, such as the Constitution.

    The President has zero authority to mandate private businesses to use E-Verify, which is why Congress would need to and hopefully will write a law. He has also zero authority to revoke Green Cards and visas of legal aliens already here without due process. He has also zero authority to revoke Green Cards and visas of legal aliens without a cause that can be argued in court and is based on existing law. He has full authority to deny issuing new visas without due process.

    President Trump is rewriting the EO. The old EO will die in the courts.

    As for your statement about SCOTUS, don't fool yourself. Apart from the fact that the court rules on a case and not on a person (i.e., pro President), the case that the current EO creates would likely backfire. There are a number of outright violations of the Constitution in the EO that relate to current Green Card and visa holders. Those parts will be found unconstitutional. There is also the discovery process, which could add more harmful material against the President. Lastly, even a "right-leaning" SCOTUS sometimes does not support a "right-leaning" decision, see King v. Burwell on the ObamaCare tax.

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