Remember this ??????
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  1. Remember this ??????


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  3. #2
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    A highly reliable source, I assume, where we have signal intelligence, like in the Flynn case?

  4. Remember this ??????

    So what fool would believe that an incoming administration wouldn't discuss current relations, future relations, and other concerns important to the new administration. What else are they going to talk about? Probably best that Flynn steps away. But, in the end who gives a **** what they talked about. If president Obama had the authority to act. President Trump has the authority to reverse that action.


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  5. #4
    It's not that Flynn did anything wrong.

    It's that he lied about it.

    Same as Nixon.

    Same as Bill Clinton.

    Same as Hillary Clinton.

    Petraeus on the other hand stuck his married dck into a married woman and did not tell anybody for a long time so he should have lost 2 starts at least for that. But at least he was honest so there was no punishment other than he will never be President now.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
    So what fool would believe that an incoming administration wouldn't discuss current relations, future relations, and other concerns important to the new administration. What else are they going to talk about? Probably best that Flynn steps away. But, in the end who gives a **** what they talked about. If president Obama had the authority to act. President Trump has the authority to reverse that action.
    Apparently, Flynn talked about the sanctions President Obama put in place against Russia after the November election. These sanctions were due to the alleged Russian interference with the election. It is alleged that Flynn told the Russians not to worry about those, as Trump will reverse them anyway. As a result, Putin did not retaliate against the sanctions. It appears that Flynn was communicating specifics of the foreign policy of future President Trump while President Obama was still in office. This is technically illegal - 18 U.S.C. 953:

    Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.
    On the other hand, who cares about following the law these days anyway.

    That the Vice President was being lied to by Flynn and kept out of the loop by the President is just how the Trump WH operates, apparently.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    Apparently, Flynn talked about the sanctions President Obama put in place against Russia after the November election. These sanctions were due to the alleged Russian interference with the election. It is alleged that Flynn told the Russians not to worry about those, as Trump will reverse them anyway. As a result, Putin did not retaliate against the sanctions. It appears that Flynn was communicating specifics of the foreign policy of future President Trump while President Obama was still in office. This is technically illegal - 18 U.S.C. 953:



    On the other hand, who cares about following the law these days anyway.

    That the Vice President was being lied to by Flynn and kept out of the loop by the President is just how the Trump WH operates, apparently.
    And by lying he is getting what he deserves. The fact that he had the conversation is no longer being debated.

    Was he not relaying the opinion of the incoming administration? If yes, then again it would be natural to lay the framework for a whole host of topics. Are we now going to apply the same standards to ex presidents who have these conversations?

    It would be naive to believe this had never happened before or that it isn't going to happen again.




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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
    And by lying he is getting what he deserves. The fact that he had the conversation is no longer being debated.

    Was he not relaying the opinion of the incoming administration? If yes, then again it would be natural to lay the framework for a whole host of topics. Are we now going to apply the same standards to ex presidents who have these conversations?

    It would be naive to believe this had never happened before or that it isn't going to happen again.
    Please show me such conversations of former Presidents with representatives of foreign nations before they were inaugurated. There is a difference between discussing potential changes in policy, which any private citizen can freely do so, and assuring actual future changes in policy that amounts to superseding the authority of the current President.

    As I said, who cares about following the law these days anyway. No one. What we know now is that we had two Presidents, beginning November 9, 2016, until January 20, 2017.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    Please show me such conversations of former Presidents with representatives of foreign nations before they were inaugurated. There is a difference between discussing potential changes in policy, which any private citizen can freely do so, and assuring actual future changes in policy that amounts to superseding the authority of the current President.

    As I said, who cares about following the law these days anyway. No one. What we know now is that we had two Presidents, beginning November 9, 2016, until January 20, 2017.
    Only that we must follow the law as interpreted by you and others who have an axe to grind.

    The law you are referencing may not have the intent you are ascribing.

    Past presidents have intervened in foreign affairs. Carter comes to mind.

    Again this was an incoming administration. They have full rights to start communication channels, and signal their feelings on issues.

    He could have just as easily announced it on the news to the same affect.....

    Not agreeing with your interpretation, is not an automatic admission thar i am advocating ignoring the law either.

    We don't have to agree, but mis characterizing my statements as lawlessness is ludicrous.


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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
    Only that we must follow the law as interpreted by you and others who have an axe to grind.

    The law you are referencing may not have the intent you are ascribing.

    Past presidents have intervened in foreign affairs. Carter comes to mind.

    Again this was an incoming administration. They have full rights to start communication channels, and signal their feelings on issues.

    He could have just as easily announced it on the news to the same affect.....

    Not agreeing with your interpretation, is not an automatic admission thar i am advocating ignoring the law either.

    We don't have to agree, but mis characterizing my statements as lawlessness is ludicrous.
    So, you can't show me such conversations of former Presidents with representatives of foreign nations before they were inaugurated. I simply stated that there was a violation of 18 U.S.C. 953 and it is being ignored. If you find that ludicrous, then you are just confirming my comment.

    As for my statement about that we had two Presidents, beginning November 9, 2016, until January 20, 2017, realize that we have some people on this forum that believe we have two Presidents now.

  11. No i stated that former presidents have conversations with foreign leaders, after they leav office. And gave the example of carter. We don't go chasing them and throw the book at them.
    Those past presidents are the same private citizens your are referring to in your law that you citied.

    If Flynn had convinced the russians to ignore the order to leave or to take retaliatory action (encouraging them). Then i would fully agree with your interpretation.

    So far we only know that he gave them assurance that Trump saw things differently.

    You are correct, i have no idea what other president elects have said privately to other countries. I am positive they gave indications of how they felt on the topics of the day.

    In the end this is another so what issue. There are going to bigger things to worry about.





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