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Thread: A Lesson in History

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W29 View Post
    . . . One man drives a truck into a crowd in France and kills dozens, another man walks into a church on a Wednesday night and guns down 9 defenseless worshipers in South Carolina. One was a muslim, one was a christian white supremacist. Both are terrorists.
    Can you please cite where Dylann Roof professed to be a Christian? I live right outside Charleston, and this is the first time I've read that he was a Christian. He didn't claim that at trial or in his manifesto. He's never given testimony to having accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. He's never quoted the Bible. He obviously has no respect for Christian churches or Christian people.

    However, there has been plenty of testimony by the survivors and victims' loved ones of his attack of their Christian faith and forgiveness.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    S&W29: I don't need a history lesson old son. I am not a bleeding heart who is content to allow just anyone into our country. I have as much feeling and compassion for others as anybody but my first allegiance is to my own country. I am against letting anyone into the country whose expressed aim is to suppress us. Islam is not only a religion but an ideology which intends to subjugate the world. Sorry, I can't buy that and I am curious to know if you are trying to say that you do. If so, where in hell have you been hiding for the last few years?

    For your edification, let me say that I have seen people who have been blown up by American bombs, adults and children. That happened because of the same type people I don't want to be allowed entry into this country. One would have to be extremely naive, or totally ignorant, about those people in order to give them carte blanche entry while knowing they are not the peaceful people/religion they profess to be. Muslims have other Muslim countries where they can be assimilated and, which if they are the people they say they are, should take them in. Look at what has happened to European countries who have allowed mass immigration of Muslims. No, I do not want them here doing the same thing. No one in their right mind would!

    Above all, you should never forget how they ardently follow the words of Muhammed, who, if you will remember, calls for death to the infidels. WE are infidels and I do not intend to submit to them to be executed. If that makes me xenophobic, so be it. That's OK because I put my country first.
    You may want to keep America safe, but you obviously don't know enough to take a rational look at the statistics. Refugees are highly unlikely to radicalize. Your fellow Americans are far more likely to be killed ny one of their own who gets radicalized over the internet, or by other radical elements on home soil. Its only logical, why import what u can get at home. I mean some of the statements made on this board prove that.

    Sorry old son, you're closing the barn door after the horse has run.

    You may have seen people blown up by terrorist bombs, but u have never put yourself in tje place of people who have had their own families blown up by American bombs.

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by S&W29 View Post
    You may want to keep America safe, but you obviously don't know enough to take a rational look at the statistics. Refugees are highly unlikely to radicalize. Your fellow Americans are far more likely to be killed ny one of their own who gets radicalized over the internet, or by other radical elements on home soil. Its only logical, why import what u can get at home. I mean some of the statements made on this board prove that.

    Sorry old son, you're closing the barn door after the horse has run.

    You may have seen people blown up by terrorist bombs, but u have never put yourself in tje place of people who have had their own families blown up by American bombs.
    Gee dude, rather condescending aren't you? Refugees are highly unlikely to radicalize? What planet are you from? And why are you assuming that I, and others on here, are too ignorant to look at statistics? There have been some in the U.S. who may have become "radicalized" but, if you look at the background of those who have, is there a common denominator? Religion? Copy cat? Or just capitalizing on the current terrorism scare? In the sentence, "Your fellow Americans....." are you saying that you aren't an American? If not, why did you come to this country? A better life? To become an American, or just be here to take advantage of the amenities that aren't available wherever you are from? If you are an American, why can't you see the danger that is facing this country with uncontrolled immigration? This country became the greatest country in the world and we have accepted immigrants from the world over BUT, it was done in an orderly manner that insured we didn't take the dregs of the world who would become just another burden on the country. Certain criteria had to be met and those who didn't meet that criteria were denied entry. We are all immigrants unless you happen to be an American Indian. All of our families came to this country and helped improve it to the state it is in today. None of those fleeing the Middle East should be allowed into the country until they have been vetted to insure that we are not allowing enemy combatants to come in posing as true refugees. That is simply common sense.

    I think that you would agree that Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. Did you know that they have already established a camp of 100,000 fireproof tents capable of holding three million people and has electricity, running water, kitchen, and bathroom facilities? Did you also know that it is sitting empty? They are only used a few days a year to house pilgrims on their way to Mecca. Why aren't fellow Muslims helping other Muslims?

    Contrary to your thoughts, my horse is still in the barn and, I would venture to say, it will stay there. Not everyone in this country is a bleeding heart and we won't stand still for usurpers trying to change us.

    A Lesson in History-8db951a27f7ad38a9ce6014c2bcd6f4d.png

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Gee dude, rather condescending aren't you? Refugees are highly unlikely to radicalize? What planet are you from? And why are you assuming that I, and others on here, are too ignorant to look at statistics? There have been some in the U.S. who may have become "radicalized" but, if you look at the background of those who have, is there a common denominator? Religion? Copy cat? Or just capitalizing on the current terrorism scare? In the sentence, "Your fellow Americans....." are you saying that you aren't an American? If not, why did you come to this country? A better life? To become an American, or just be here to take advantage of the amenities that aren't available wherever you are from? If you are an American, why can't you see the danger that is facing this country with uncontrolled immigration? This country became the greatest country in the world and we have accepted immigrants from the world over BUT, it was done in an orderly manner that insured we didn't take the dregs of the world who would become just another burden on the country. Certain criteria had to be met and those who didn't meet that criteria were denied entry. We are all immigrants unless you happen to be an American Indian. All of our families came to this country and helped improve it to the state it is in today. None of those fleeing the Middle East should be allowed into the country until they have been vetted to insure that we are not allowing enemy combatants to come in posing as true refugees. That is simply common sense.

    I think that you would agree that Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. Did you know that they have already established a camp of 100,000 fireproof tents capable of holding three million people and has electricity, running water, kitchen, and bathroom facilities? Did you also know that it is sitting empty? They are only used a few days a year to house pilgrims on their way to Mecca. Why aren't fellow Muslims helping other Muslims?

    Contrary to your thoughts, my horse is still in the barn and, I would venture to say, it will stay there. Not everyone in this country is a bleeding heart and we won't stand still for usurpers trying to change us.

    A Lesson in History-8db951a27f7ad38a9ce6014c2bcd6f4d.png
    I presume you don't look up statistics since your statements indicate that. Here's a hard fact for you According to the CATO Institute Study on the subject your odds of being killed in a terrorist attack by a foreign born immigrant or tourist in the period studied between 1975 and 2015 was 1 in 3.6 million. For comparison, your odds of being struck by lightning in your lifetime in any given year are 1 in 700,000. That means you're almost 4 times more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be killed in a foreign terrorist incident. In fact, the odds of being killed in a mass shooting as defined by the FBI (an incident in which for or more people are killed at the same time) are about 1 in a million. So you're more likely to be hurt by lightning or a deranged lunatic with a gun than you are to be killed by a muslim.

    To put it simply,you are buying into fear mongering rather than looking at the problem rationally and assessing the facts and the statistical odds. The vetting process for refugee immigrants coming from the middle east are already the most stringent the U.S. can put them through. The average wait from the time their paperwork is put in to the time they set foot on American soil is between 18 months and 2 years already. In the process for that, they are screened multiple times and through multiple agencies and multiple databases. Want to know more about the actual Vetting process, try looking HEREand Here.

    The bottom line is that since we have been in the Middle East for at least the last 15 years, we have very good documentation of who the bad guys are, and walking through a border from Asia to Europe is very different than coming to the United States.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W29 View Post
    I presume you don't look up statistics since your statements indicate that. Here's a hard fact for you According to the CATO Institute Study on the subject your odds of being killed in a terrorist attack by a foreign born immigrant or tourist in the period studied between 1975 and 2015 was 1 in 3.6 million. For comparison, your odds of being struck by lightning in your lifetime in any given year are 1 in 700,000. That means you're almost 4 times more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be killed in a foreign terrorist incident. In fact, the odds of being killed in a mass shooting as defined by the FBI (an incident in which for or more people are killed at the same time) are about 1 in a million. So you're more likely to be hurt by lightning or a deranged lunatic with a gun than you are to be killed by a muslim.

    To put it simply,you are buying into fear mongering rather than looking at the problem rationally and assessing the facts and the statistical odds. The vetting process for refugee immigrants coming from the middle east are already the most stringent the U.S. can put them through. The average wait from the time their paperwork is put in to the time they set foot on American soil is between 18 months and 2 years already. In the process for that, they are screened multiple times and through multiple agencies and multiple databases. Want to know more about the actual Vetting process, try looking HEREand Here.

    The bottom line is that since we have been in the Middle East for at least the last 15 years, we have very good documentation of who the bad guys are, and walking through a border from Asia to Europe is very different than coming to the United States.
    I don't know about anyone else but I know there is a chance of getting struck by lightning so I don't go for a stroll in the middle of a thunderstorm. And I know there is a chance of being killed by a terrorist hidden among the refugees so I want the refugees to undergo not just ordinary vetting we have now but to undergo new and extreme vetting. This is just plain old common sense.

    But to try to justify letting in refugees by playing with statistics to make it appear there isn't much of a threat is about the weakest argument I've seen so far.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by S&W29 View Post
    I presume you don't look up statistics since your statements indicate that. Here's a hard fact for you According to the CATO Institute Study on the subject your odds of being killed in a terrorist attack by a foreign born immigrant or tourist in the period studied between 1975 and 2015 was 1 in 3.6 million. For comparison, your odds of being struck by lightning in your lifetime in any given year are 1 in 700,000. That means you're almost 4 times more likely to be struck by lightning than you are to be killed in a foreign terrorist incident. In fact, the odds of being killed in a mass shooting as defined by the FBI (an incident in which for or more people are killed at the same time) are about 1 in a million. So you're more likely to be hurt by lightning or a deranged lunatic with a gun than you are to be killed by a muslim.

    To put it simply,you are buying into fear mongering rather than looking at the problem rationally and assessing the facts and the statistical odds. The vetting process for refugee immigrants coming from the middle east are already the most stringent the U.S. can put them through. The average wait from the time their paperwork is put in to the time they set foot on American soil is between 18 months and 2 years already. In the process for that, they are screened multiple times and through multiple agencies and multiple databases. Want to know more about the actual Vetting process, try looking HEREand Here.

    The bottom line is that since we have been in the Middle East for at least the last 15 years, we have very good documentation of who the bad guys are, and walking through a border from Asia to Europe is very different than coming to the United States.
    S&W29: I think Bikenut very succinctly summed up this issue, "But to try to justify letting in refugees by playing with statistics to make it appear there isn't much of a threat is about the weakest argument I've seen so far." But I still refer to my question which you have yet to answer, "Your fellow Americans....." are you saying that you aren't an American? If not, why did you come to this country?"

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    S&W29: I think Bikenut very succinctly summed up this issue, "But to try to justify letting in refugees by playing with statistics to make it appear there isn't much of a threat is about the weakest argument I've seen so far." But I still refer to my question which you have yet to answer, "Your fellow Americans....." are you saying that you aren't an American? If not, why did you come to this country?"
    Really, that's the best you got? "I can't find any real facts of my own, so I'm going to say you can twist statistics to say anything you want." That's just sad. Then to top it off, you can't come back with anything else to support your argument, so instead you question whether I'm an American. In this case it doesn't matter. I could be from Antarctica and it wouldn't change the fact that you can't come back with anything better.

    Bye bye old son. Come back when you can support your argument with real facts.

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by S&W29 View Post
    Really, that's the best you got? "I can't find any real facts of my own, so I'm going to say you can twist statistics to say anything you want." That's just sad. Then to top it off, you can't come back with anything else to support your argument, so instead you question whether I'm an American. In this case it doesn't matter. I could be from Antarctica and it wouldn't change the fact that you can't come back with anything better.

    Bye bye old son. Come back when you can support your argument with real facts.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8sW...ature=youtu.be

    What is the matter? Are you afraid to admit your nationality? If you are an American, you are one of the bleeding hearts who is willing to turn the country over to them to your own detriment. I do not have to look at statistics offered by some of these organizations. When I can go to town, I can see how they are coming here. In the grocerys and malls. If you will go to the Pew Research Center, you can get all the "facts" you want. I can also go into town and see the facts walking around, up close and personal.

    The video shows other reasons why I don't want them here, en masse. Let them come here through the regular immigration processes and not be dumped on us as happened in Europe. If you are content with that, please feel free to go over there with them. Have your mother, wife, daughter and even your son raped by those backward heathens. Sorry, and I think I can speak for many on here, we don't want that happening here. The Europeans have taken to arming themselves to protect their families from them. But they forget, we are already armed and will not be subjected to their animal ways.

    In my personal opinion, if they come to this country, learn our language, work and prosper as other immigrants have, there would be no problems. I don't expect a Muslim to come here with three or four wives and live off our government. Also, don't tell me that they would kill me because I am an infidel. It is pure BS to think that we should have to put up with that.

    Check the video and see if those "facts" are real enough for you.

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Reba View Post
    Can you please cite where Dylann Roof professed to be a Christian? I live right outside Charleston, and this is the first time I've read that he was a Christian. He didn't claim that at trial or in his manifesto. He's never given testimony to having accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. He's never quoted the Bible. He obviously has no respect for Christian churches or Christian people.

    However, there has been plenty of testimony by the survivors and victims' loved ones of his attack of their Christian faith and forgiveness.
    He is registered as being on the rolls of an Evangelical Lutheran Church.

    South Carolina Lutheran Pastor: Dylann Roof Was Church Member, His Family Prays For Victims | The Huffington Post

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8sW...ature=youtu.be

    What is the matter? Are you afraid to admit your nationality? If you are an American, you are one of the bleeding hearts who is willing to turn the country over to them to your own detriment. I do not have to look at statistics offered by some of these organizations. When I can go to town, I can see how they are coming here. In the grocerys and malls. If you will go to the Pew Research Center, you can get all the "facts" you want. I can also go into town and see the facts walking around, up close and personal.

    The video shows other reasons why I don't want them here, en masse. Let them come here through the regular immigration processes and not be dumped on us as happened in Europe. If you are content with that, please feel free to go over there with them. Have your mother, wife, daughter and even your son raped by those backward heathens. Sorry, and I think I can speak for many on here, we don't want that happening here. The Europeans have taken to arming themselves to protect their families from them. But they forget, we are already armed and will not be subjected to their animal ways.

    In my personal opinion, if they come to this country, learn our language, work and prosper as other immigrants have, there would be no problems. I don't expect a Muslim to come here with three or four wives and live off our government. Also, don't tell me that they would kill me because I am an infidel. It is pure BS to think that we should have to put up with that.

    Check the video and see if those "facts" are real enough for you.
    No, my nationality is not relevant as your post above proves. You're attempting to pigeonhole me as one thing or another so you can pin ad hominem attacks on me. So no i will not tell you my nationality. Just as i won't view your right wing video. Your ignorance and anecdotes do not have the same weight or validity as my facts. So cite actual statistics and facts or stuff it.

    That is how you have a debate.

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