Pastor who said Pulse nightclub victims ‘got what they deserve’ convicted molester - Page 4
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Thread: Pastor who said Pulse nightclub victims ‘got what they deserve’ convicted molester

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by SmiddySW View Post
    XD: That statement was not directed at you, and I'm sorry you think it was. Using fear as a tactic to "save souls" is not on my agenda. I'd much prefer to utilize rational discussion. However, you seem predisposed to view Christians as hypocritical and devious (see "fear mongering") so you would probably assume I'm like that out of the gate and not be interested in such a civil discussion.

    Whatever the case, you can be sure that I wish all of mankind a good, peaceful existence, and all I seek to do is to allow the light of Christ in my own life to brighten the lives of others.

    Christians do not have the whole "convert, die or pay our tax for not being one of us" system going on. But rest assured, one day ISIS and their like will run into the wrong Christians.

    Peace be with you XD.
    ~Smiddy
    My response was to OG, and he has thrown the "Pascal's Wager" card many, many times, and long before you even joined this forum. And I call him on it frequently.

    I appreciate the 'rational discussion' approach over the typical "you'll be sorry" tactics of many other christians attempt to defend their beliefs.

    You haven't indicated what part of the country you actually live in, but I live near the buckle of the bible belt, and I hear and see the fear mongering of eternal damnation far too frequently.

    I have a light that outshines any god, reason and reality.

    If you are close by, I'll be glad to buy you a beer in any of the local breweries and we can discuss this further.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    My response was to OG, and he has thrown the "Pascal's Wager" card many, many times, and long before you even joined this forum. And I call him on it frequently.

    I appreciate the 'rational discussion' approach over the typical "you'll be sorry" tactics of many other christians attempt to defend their beliefs.

    You haven't indicated what part of the country you actually live in, but I live near the buckle of the bible belt, and I hear and see the fear mongering of eternal damnation far too frequently.

    I have a light that outshines any god, reason and reality.

    If you are close by, I'll be glad to buy you a beer in any of the local breweries and we can discuss this further.
    A kind offer. I enjoy a pint o Guinness:)

    I'd disagree about the light of reason and reality outshining God ("any (g)od as u say it) as I believe reason to comprehend reality is granted to God's creation, mankind, but it'd take a lot of time to converse over it.
    I'm in Ohio btw. Have lived in the South (Bossier City) which I think is in the Bible Belt...

    I don't support attempts to use a fear, especially that of Hell, to convince anyone of anything. That'd be pretty silly IMO.
    What I do support is civilized theological debate, but that would require a statement of exactly what it is another believes or doesn't.

    Question is: are you an atheist?

    I sympathize with people who've had zealous people try to scare them into their religion. Had many try it with me while I was growing up. Personally i don't serve God out of fear, but out of love and a sense of reason, as I believe we are created beings and therefore seek my Creator to know Him. A bit of transcendence perhaps, but I think everyone has or can sense there's something greater than themselves.

    I especially don't like "it's the end times" types who preach "rapture" theology that didn't even exist until the 1800's. They often use Holy Scripture verses taken out of context , something I disdain, to support unbiblical theories, used to support their flavor of "I'm more right than you are sillines." Same thing-fear tactic. "Be like me or burn in Hell."

    Anyway, I'm glad I didn't come off all "Holier than thou" to ya.

    I've nearly commented on some erroneous theology in other posts here, but those who are wrapped up in end-times prophecies are usually impossible to deal with, so I've maintained discipline with what I write...

    Sadly, I find as much to disagree on with most Christians as any atheists. (Specifically Protestants, as I was one and converted to Catholicism.)

    Anyway, take care and thanks again for the offer. And thank you for being civil about the subject.

    Peace!
    ~Smiddy



    USAF(Ret)

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    My response was to OG, and he has thrown the "Pascal's Wager" card many, many times, and long before you even joined this forum. And I call him on it frequently.

    I appreciate the 'rational discussion' approach over the typical "you'll be sorry" tactics of many other christians attempt to defend their beliefs.

    You haven't indicated what part of the country you actually live in, but I live near the buckle of the bible belt, and I hear and see the fear mongering of eternal damnation far too frequently.

    I have a light that outshines any god, reason and reality.

    If you are close by, I'll be glad to buy you a beer in any of the local breweries and we can discuss this further.
    XD: If you will recall, you are the first one to ever mention the term "Pascal's Wager" as a form of argument. To paraphrase, the Wager is that one can not come to the knowledge of God through reason alone, so the most prudent thing to do is to live your life as if He does exist and, because living such a life, gives us everything to gain and nothing to lose. Relatively simple thought but is not sufficient in itself for salvation of the soul.

    The knowledge of God is evident to all, consequently, we are without excuse in denying Him. Romans 1:20-21, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

    The natural man, one who has not been born again by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), cannot be persuaded to a saving faith in Jesus Christ simply by use of Pascal's Wager. Faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit and Paul makes the argument that the natural man can not understand the things of God. The Wager does not mention the work of the Spirit done bringing us to true faith.

    If you will read more into the Wager, you will see that it is not what you are trying to make it seem to be. As a matter of fact, Pascal's Wager has no real place in evangelization. It can be described as a false theory which does not, in any manner, guarantee one a place in heaven through the use of it. SmiddySW, in his response to you made the statement:

    "I don't support attempts to use a fear, especially that of Hell, to convince anyone of anything. That'd be pretty silly IMO. What I do support is civilized theological debate, but that would require a statement of exactly what it is another believes or doesn't."


    I make no attempt to "scare Hell out of anyone." The Bible is the foundation of our religion. One either believes in Jesus Christ and follows the tenets of our religion, or they don't. Simple as that. I see no need for a "civilized theological debate" because God's Word is not open to debate. If one wants to debate it, he will have to go to God Himself. What the Bible states is very clear and, if one derives fear from it, one needs to ask why he is afraid. Some personal shortcoming? Inability to accept things one disagrees with? It all boils down to one thing, either you believe or you don't.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    XD: If you will recall, you are the first one to ever mention the term "Pascal's Wager" as a form of argument. To paraphrase, the Wager is that one can not come to the knowledge of God through reason alone, so the most prudent thing to do is to live your life as if He does exist and, because living such a life, gives us everything to gain and nothing to lose. Relatively simple thought but is not sufficient in itself for salvation of ...<text removed for the sake of brevity>

    I make no attempt to "scare Hell out of anyone." The Bible is the foundation of our religion. One either believes in Jesus Christ and follows the tenets of our religion, or they don't. Simple as that. I see no need for a "civilized theological debate" because God's Word is not open to debate. If one wants to debate it, he will have to go to God Himself. What the Bible states is very clear and, if one derives fear from it, one needs to ask why he is afraid. Some personal shortcoming? Inability to accept things one disagrees with? It all boils down to one thing, either you believe or you don't.
    No, God's word is not open for debate, but the interpretations of it, the same ones that have resulted in 30,000+ Protestant denominations since Luther and Calvin, are.

    Anyway, if someone works on the basis of reason, then civilized debate is the only way to make any points they may consider valid, and perhaps begin to agree.

    It sounds to me as if you may want it to be as you say or not at all. That doesn't work at all in supporting one's belief system to someone outside of it.

    My first instinct would be to recommend the reading of theologians like Aquinas, but I'm guessing it's more time than you wish to invest since you seem to have it all figured out.

    Peace be with you,
    ~Smiddy


    USAF(Ret)

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SmiddySW View Post
    No, God's word is not open for debate, but the interpretations of it, the same ones that have resulted in 30,000+ Protestant denominations since Luther and Calvin, are.

    Anyway, if someone works on the basis of reason, then civilized debate is the only way to make any points they may consider valid, and perhaps begin to agree.

    It sounds to me as if you may want it to be as you say or not at all. That doesn't work at all in supporting one's belief system to someone outside of it.

    My first instinct would be to recommend the reading of theologians like Aquinas, but I'm guessing it's more time than you wish to invest since you seem to have it all figured out.

    Peace be with you,
    ~Smiddy


    USAF(Ret)
    Smiddy: First of all, let me tell you I am also a Catholic so I am familiar with many of the church fathers. Enjoyable reading but I still believe in the Bible. You quote 30,000 Protestant religions but that number is actually in question. In an article entitled,"30,000 Protestant Denominations?", evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:

    Svendson shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barret; Oxford University Press, 1982).

    Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. However, not all of them are Protestants. According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223.)

    However, even the figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines "distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group. The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.

    Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."

    Considering the numbers mentioned, don't you think it would be prudent for one to adhere to the Bible rather than to constantly try to detract from it? Read and believe what it says. II Tim. 2:23-25, "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach patient in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth.

    So, the Bible is to be read and followed. II Tim. 3: 16, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

    Again, I don't want things to be as I want, only as God wants and has spelled out for us.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    So, the Bible is to be read and followed. II Tim. 3: 16, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

    Again, I don't want things to be as I want, only as God wants and has spelled out for us.
    AMEN OG...(Galatians 1:8) "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed"....PERIOD. There are far too many "Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people" (2 Timothy 3:5). All are Signs of the End of the Age and this Last Generation clearly revealing in Scripture for anyone desiring WISDOM & TRUTH. The vast majority of people, both secular and so-called Christian, are deathly afraid of Prophecy (1/3 of the Scriptures), especially End Time Prophecy, for all the right "WORLDLY"reasons. Be assured that if I thought that I could literally scare the HELL out of anyone, I certainly would. The Scriptures describe our present state of distress as a state of ABSOLUTE PERPLEXITY,"to have no way out; to be at a loss mentally". Long before the presidential election I said here, many times on this forum, that regardless of who occupies the Oval Office "everything" will, as the Scriptures tell us, continue to WAX WORSE & WORSE.

    Trump being elected has slowed nothing down, quite to the contrary. Everything is of God's plan for these Last Days. Israel is God's prophetic timepiece, the End of The Book has already been written and NOTHING will change it. America isn't mentioned in prophecy. Due to America's present Super Power status, common sense tells us there are only two logical reasons why...1] America is destroyed by it's many enemies. 2] America becomes subservient to the authority of the antichrist and therefore becomes insignificant. Either way, knowing that we are already 69 years into this Last Generation, the "ONLY THING" holding back America's demise is the Rapture of Christ's church. Two very important things to ponder in these very last of these last days...1] IGNORANCE is without question the hallmark of this Last Generation. 2] "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves".

    "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened".

    According to Christ's words, when "the fig tree and all the trees" put forth leaves (come alive), we are to absolutely and confidently "know" the Kingdom of God is near, and the generation that is living at that time "will not pass away until all prophecy is fulfilled." The preponderance of Scriptural and global evidence is overwhelming that we are the generation Christ was talking about.

    A good read for those who love their families and want to know the truth and live...

    ~ God Hates Religion ~
    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

  8. To the OP Topic:

    What doesn't make sense is this: That group knows they are targeted for "hate crimes," yet no one was carrying to defend themselves against the attack. (hate crimes in quotes only because that's how the media says it. If someone kills another out of hate vs legal justification, then ok that's what it is.)

    If I were going to a public venue where I knew the group I was with was hated and frequently targeted, for instance, a venue catering to tall white male "br'ars," I'd carry extra heavy for the outing. And if no carry was legally permitted, I wouldn't frigging go. But then we have to consider that a gathering of that type would have the majority of participants being armed by default I guess. Maybe that's why there aren't "Bluegrass Festival" ASE's?

    In no way does their lack of armament justify whole sale killings, but come on, does this group not "get" that they are often targets ?!

  9. #38
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    . . . sigh....

    Philippians 1:27-29

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by SmiddySW View Post
    To the OP Topic:

    What doesn't make sense is this: That group knows they are targeted for "hate crimes," yet no one was carrying to defend themselves against the attack. (hate crimes in quotes only because that's how the media says it. If someone kills another out of hate vs legal justification, then ok that's what it is.)

    If I were going to a public venue where I knew the group I was with was hated and frequently targeted, for instance, a venue catering to tall white male "br'ars," I'd carry extra heavy for the outing. And if no carry was legally permitted, I wouldn't frigging go. But then we have to consider that a gathering of that type would have the majority of participants being armed by default I guess. Maybe that's why there aren't "Bluegrass Festival" ASE's?

    In no way does their lack of armament justify whole sale killings, but come on, does this group not "get" that they are often targets ?!
    First of all Smiddy, go and re-read my OP post, I never refereed to any "hate crime", so how did you read that into what I did say?

    Second, I'm not that up on FL carry laws, for the very simple reason I don't live in FL, and have absolutely zero desire to even visit FL. I also don't know if the club was posted even if it were legal to carry into the club under FL laws.

    But I see you didn't hesitate to blame the victims. is this the same view you have toward any decent looking woman that is raped, it's all her fault for not being too ugly to rape?
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  11. I didn't read it into your post, I just called it what I consider it to have been.
    I have a non-resident Fl carry license from years back because I could get it and it covered Tx, which Ohio didn't at the time. But whatever. My point is that the LBGT crowd is frequently targeted and it's common knowledge, so if I were in such a group my wary-level would stay high. I do NOT blame the victims. Nor do I have a view like that about women rape victims. That would be absurd.

    What I do have a view about is situational awareness relating to who I'm around in public. If I'm going to be with a group that has a higher than average probability of being targeted by criminals, then I'm going to carry. If I couldn't carry I wouldn't go.

    And I honestly hate the concept of rape victims being blamed. Ever. Matter of fact, that's one crime for which I'd take the law into my own hands. I mean seriously, if my wife or daughter were raped, the sick bas***d who did it would do better for LE to find him before i did.
    I hope we're clear on those points. The club goers were not at fault, and no one is ever at fault for being raped.


    Sent from my iPhone using USA Carry

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