Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important) - Page 19
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Thread: Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important)

  1. Let me jump in here again...
    Some on here have checked with their local enforcement people... either fed, state or local towns... the answers given all came back... check your state laws. Then a lot of you claim... it's not the state, it's the Fed Law, it overides the States Law.
    I come back to... Can a State write a law that covers a Fed Law and keeps it legal?
    As per TX saying... by these legal agreements that cover what the Fed Law does say... We aren't going to give everyone in your state a copy of a permit... so we do it by this legal agreement between us and only us.
    TX is only in agreement of Rec with 29 other states. And again... only one state is in agreement with 33 others. IT IS NOT THE SAME AGREEMENTS covering all 48 states.
    Why not? Why is TX only in 29 when another state is in 33... why not just a blanket covering all 48. why not covering all 50. Because of the different ways each state has of doing their OWN CC.

    Check YOUR states laws...
    Some say all of the locals don't know all of the Fed Laws... that also means... the Feds can't answer a question from VA and claim it covers all 50 states.

    Bear

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Bear75135 View Post
    Can a state law cover what a Fed Law says?

    Bear
    No.

    The exemption in Federal law is this:
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    The key word is highlighted. If you, a Texas CHL holder go to Oklahoma, which state are you licensed BY? You are licensed BY the state of Texas. Oklahoma had NOTHING to do with issuing your CHL. Your background check was done BY Texas. Your license was issued BY Texas. You might be able to say you are licensed IN Oklahoma, because of reciprocity, but you were never licensed BY the State of Oklahoma. And, regardless of whether or not Oklahoma does their background checks for their permits, the state of Oklahoma did not do a background check for your Texas permit. Can the state of Oklahoma revoke your Texas CHL? NO. Because it was not issued BY them. They can refuse to accept it's validity, if they choose to, though.

    If an Oklahoma resident with an Oklahoma license is in Texas, their license was issued BY the state of Oklahoma. Again, they may be licensed IN Texas because of reciprocity, but they are not licensed BY the state of Texas, unless they actually obtain a Texas CHL. The key point in the statute is which state issued the license, not who recognizes the license.

  4. #183
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PANHANDLE, FL
    Posts
    144
    Eagle2009:
    I've followed your posts for months now and your conclusion is a bombshell of truth and expose' of twisted legal labyrinths between localities and states, states and feds, etc., on the subject of conceal-carry. The Fed GFZA95 is intentionally dishonest. Of all citizens passing through school zones, via streets and highways, the most responsible and protective of school kids would comprise CCW holders, having passed serious background checks - and I realize background check standards vary between states, but are certainly significant - far more significant than giving nefarious persons advantage by disarming us, via Fed GFZA95, and giving THEM, intent on harming school kids and consider our gun laws and regulations a belly-busting hoot, the legal tools to do harm. This subject really affects me because I travel from Atlanta (where I work) to the Florida panhandle (my home state residence and CCW-issuer) every weekend, via Alabama. The route is 2/3 interstate but the last 1/3 makes me travel through several small Alabama towns, each one sporting a school zone! Before I read your posts I was oblivious to the potential legal hurricane I entertained. Now, I maintain the same route but carry my weapon in a locked hard-case through Alabama, the GFZA95 exception and allowance. Sure, I'm pretty much neutered passing through these small towns but we all know that small town LEOs have a propensity to create their own justification for existence. Thanks for your consistency and devotion to this subject. You may very well have kept an innocent and good citizen, who happens to carry, out of prison.

  5. #184
    We are now on page 19 according to my browser of this discussion and most of it is an arguement about whether or not this whole thing makes sense and whether it is correct and all that other stuff. The end result is that it does not make sense and should not be interpreted as it is and we all agree on that. However right now it is the law and is enforced upon occasion and unless you want to challenge it in court there isn't much we can do about it other than try to get our Senators and Representatives to change it. In a nutshell this is how it works.

    There is a Federal law that says guns are prohibited within 1,000' of a school:

    Unless:
    1. You have it inside a locked case (or some similar wording)
    2, You have a permit issued by the state that the school is located (Non-resident permits count if issued by that state)

    Does not work:
    1. Even if a state has a reciprocal agreement with another state it does not matter
    2. If the states do not have a reciprocal agreement but the state honors your permit
    (These two are stupid and you can argue with them all day but that is the law)

    Gotchas:
    1. The law says you should have known about the school but did not may help
    2. Local LEO do not normally enforce this law as it is a Federal law but do have the authority to do so
    3. Some states also have a state law the same as the Federal law
    4. Riding by the school in a car may technically be a violation but I have never heard of that being enforced
    5. I have only heard of the law being enforced as an only violation one time. (Although there are probably more)
    6. All the other cases of this law being enforced was a result of some other violation and this tacked on to the charges.

    I do not plan to make any changes in my normal routine due to this law. I am not about to walk up and down the street in front of a school while OC or CC. While driving down the road I am not going to worry about where my gun is every time I see a school zone sign.

  6. #185
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PANHANDLE, FL
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    We are now on page 19 according to my browser of this discussion and most of it is an arguement about whether or not this whole thing makes sense and whether it is correct and all that other stuff. The end result is that it does not make sense and should not be interpreted as it is and we all agree on that. However right now it is the law and is enforced upon occasion and unless you want to challenge it in court there isn't much we can do about it other than try to get our Senators and Representatives to change it. In a nutshell this is how it works.

    There is a Federal law that says guns are prohibited within 1,000' of a school:

    Unless:
    1. You have it inside a locked case (or some similar wording)
    2, You have a permit issued by the state that the school is located (Non-resident permits count if issued by that state)

    Does not work:
    1. Even if a state has a reciprocal agreement with another state it does not matter
    2. If the states do not have a reciprocal agreement but the state honors your permit
    (These two are stupid and you can argue with them all day but that is the law)

    Gotchas:
    1. The law says you should have known about the school but did not may help
    2. Local LEO do not normally enforce this law as it is a Federal law but do have the authority to do so
    3. Some states also have a state law the same as the Federal law
    4. Riding by the school in a car may technically be a violation but I have never heard of that being enforced
    5. I have only heard of the law being enforced as an only violation one time. (Although there are probably more)
    6. All the other cases of this law being enforced was a result of some other violation and this tacked on to the charges.

    I do not plan to make any changes in my normal routine due to this law. I am not about to walk up and down the street in front of a school while OC or CC. While driving down the road I am not going to worry about where my gun is every time I see a school zone sign.
    FN1910:
    This topic, all the scenarios and ramifications of Fed GFZA95 and states' reciprocity, has been discussed for so long now that certainly Federal LEOs and Federal Attorneys have taken notice and been refreshed and invigorated to launch enforcement of GFZA95 in the near future. Liberal attorneys with political ambitions enjoy no shortage of participants. Whether the Fed launches its own sting using its own people in the form of random school zone road blocks or solicit local LEOs to do it, I anticipate this will be a top news item this spring. Legal CCWs who trust the anonymity of traffic and the odds to be low due the inefficiency of nabbing a GFZA95 violator are mistaken. The Fed could be quite efficient - it knows us and even knows our travel habits if it wants to know - there's no anonymity in this Forum if the Fed wants to know something. I think it a mistake to carry as normal through school zones unless your "normal" complies with GFZA95, especially since we're now informed.
    Last edited by antietam; 02-03-2011 at 07:13 AM. Reason: spelling

  7. Local LEO enforcing Fed law?

    This comes up a lot in CA where State law allows marijauana but Federal Law says it's illegal. The State police, I thought did not have the power to arrest you since you have committed no State crimes. It would have to be a Federal Agent.

    Is that not correct?

  8. #187
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    Might mention in Texas you may enter a school ground unless posted but you may not enter school buildings, you can deliver and pick up your kids.

  9. Can a State law be written that covers a Fed Law?
    … that was a rhetorical question. The answer is Yes.
    This Fed Law might be able to null and void what was written “before it”
    but not “something written after it, if what is written after covers it”
    ALL of Texas’s Rec. Agreements that are on the books now were written after ‘95.
    Yep… after the Fed Law.
    TX and the 29 States they have agreements with went this route…
    Texas Law and the States they have these Rec. Ag. with says…
    (as I’ve been told and pointed out by copied TX text,
    There is some other text that says about credit and suches..)
    But it comes down to…
    We KNOW You did what We do…
    SO we consider it done by us,
    and we are not going to give each of your permit holders
    a physical copy of ours…
    just to cover this Fed Law…
    We’re going to do it this way…
    In THIS Rec. Agreement…
    This ONE between us and only us.

    Some keep bringing up…
    Issued by the State you’re in…
    They worded it that way for a reason…
    Because most of/if not all of the RS’s at the time didn’t cover this
    Again, I point out…
    TX Law says we -
    We Do Give You A Permit - in this agreement with your State

    I tried to write this…
    so that it might show as being said slowly... for some to read and understand.

    - NavyLT… all I can say is… WOW! I don’t know if you are or ever where a Navy LT or just using it for a handle… but you are reminding me of some. Some? Chit, All I knew/know. You even got the “because I’m saying so” in there like they did/do. As their thinking goes… The Last Thing I Was Told Is What and All I Know. (I capped each word to show “Authority” as they did) Anyway… As an example… our ship pulled into Gitmo, (yea, the place with the prison, but it really has been a Navy Base long before that. A base that all East Coast ships go to for refresher training, or testing. They have inspectors that don’t allow you (ship) to leave until you pass), … a group of Engineering Officers came into our Fireroom (Rear, #2 with 2-1200 psi boilers) to run our drills. One LT asked what a Valve in the area between our 2 boilers was for… It was a Freshwater Cross-Connect. To tie our Freshwater into the Forward Fireroom’s water supply if needed. He informed us, that the Navy had NO ships with this valve in the Fireroom. BTW… our ship was only 1 of 4 made, as a Destroyer Leader. Mitscher Class. About an hour later… he turned around, right into this valve, full face. A tall person like he was would have had to duck under it. We asked him if he believed it was there NOW? We had to do a few more drills until our 1st kicked him out.

    Anyhow… To all… open your minds and as been told by those who have already checked…
    Do a lil research on your own…
    Check Your States Law. See what or if your State might have already done about this. Maybe the guy who answered that VA question/letter… didn’t know everything either. And making your decisions based on it only… is stupid!
    Trust but Verify

    Again
    Bear

    ps... to include Nightmare's thoughts...
    TX law states and for the schools pickup etc... "premises"... means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking areas. (unless the entraces are posted)

    again
    Be Safe
    Bear

  10. Once again, to qualify for the permit exception in the federal gun free school zones act of 1995 there are three individual qualifiers that must all be met before the exception applies.

    1: Licensed to do so by the state in which the school is in.

    2: The law of the state in which the school is located requires that their law enforcement conduct a background check before an individual receives a license.

    3. The law-enforcement authorities in the state in which the school is located actually conducted a background check before the license was issued.


    Even if you convince a federal judge you are "licensed" in another state as a result of reciprocity, that only satisfies the first criteria in the law. Criteria #2 and #3 are not met by reciprocity agreements.


    Also, if the judge rules during pre-trial that you do not qualify for the permit exception, it his highly unlikely the federal jury would ever know about your permit, as this "extraneous information" would be suppressed by the prosecution.

  11. #190

    Let's get real here.

    I'm going to state this plainly and simply. If you are a gun owner you are a criminal in the eyes of the people who write these laws. This is just one more attempt to criminalize your actions.

    None of the Gun control laws in the United States are legal as 2A supercedes any and all laws under inclusion. See McDonald vs Chicago http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf
    The only part that has yet to be dealt with is the last clause of 2A. Will the Supreme Court rule on this? "...Shall not be infringed" There is strong evidence that even the constructionists on the court believe people have a valid reason to ignore an inalienable right. These rights are not granted and cannot be altered by man.

    The preamble to the Declaration of Independence firmly testifies to the three preeminent rights. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. The Bill of Rights was an attempt to assure the States that ratified the Constitution that these things would remain immutable.

    The question is, how do we return the law to its proper meaning and what course of action will be necessary to rid ourselves of these usurpations of our liberty?

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