Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important) - Page 25
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Thread: Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important)

  1. I am continually amazed and disheartened by the number of people who cannot read the text of a law and understand what it says. I know it can be difficult when the text refers back to some code number which you then have to stop & look up. But it is possible to do and we should all be doing it. To do otherwise is just being lazy and irresponsible.
    Here's another one: The Ninth Amendment was just referenced a few posts back. How many of us, without looking, know what that refers to? I can honestly say I don't & guess where I'm headed next; to look it up.
    Last edited by Hoganbeg; 09-02-2011 at 07:41 PM. Reason: typo

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  3. #242
    The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
    The ninth amendment is the one that 200+ years people are still trying to figure out what it is all about. There have been many cases that have used it with no clear meaning. It basically says that the Constitution does not list all of the rights of the citizens nor does it limit the rights of the government to prohibit them.

    However you are absolutely correct about being disheartened at the number of people who either cannot or will not just read the laws to see what they say. But it is not limited to laws but everyday things. I constantly get calls from people with a problem with their computer. I will ask them to read what is says on the screen. They will read me the first line and stop. I will ask them what else it says. They read the second line and stop. I wind up having to tell them to read each line one by one and usually when we get to the bottom it tells them what to do next. This has become the standard mentality of people that we want to know which one button to push and nothing else, which one line quote from a cantidate to sum up his whole campaign, which one law covers everything we do.

    Both children and adults play video games where when you get killed or don't like the way things are going you just hit reset and start over. They keep on doing that and before long they start to apply the reset button to real life. Rather than trying to solve problems we want to hit the reset button by declaring bankruptcy and start over. You get mad and shoot someone they get to hit reset and remember that like in the games or on TV the other person is a terrible shot and you can easily outdraw them in getting your gun out. For ADHD and attention span look at the music videos of today. No scene is longer than 2 seconds. How can you possibly learn to concentrate on anything when it changes every two seconds. I know I am rambling here but Hoganbeg, you make a great point.

  4. It finally happened; Permit Holder Stopped for Speeding in School Zone and Arrested Under Fed GFSZA. I don't have any more information on this than what the forum topic shows, but it appears that it has finally happened in North Carolina, a CCW permit holder was stopped for speeding in a school zone and was arrested under the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act when he showed the officer his permit.

    http://www.ncgunowners.com/forum/Thr...l-Zones?page=1

  5. #244
    Eagle2009: There is something missing from that post as supposedly the person arrested had a CHP from NC (or that is the way I read it) but was charged under the Federal statute which clearly says that he should be exempt. Either the arresting officer was wrong or there was something else that needs filling in. I don't know and hesitate to guess as this report was based purely on hearsay and rumor so until some facts are known we shouldn't start our march on Raleigh quite yet. I have heard people tell similar stories about someone being arrested or something similar and know for a fact that what they are telling is completely wrong but it was what they at least thought they heard. I would like to know some more about this if you hear of anything.

  6. #245
    I was just about to post about this incident, I am from NC and a member of this forum. The post was brought up by the instructor from whom the person in the incident got the CCW permit. She is currently trying to find out just what exactly happened here. We are all quite confused and concerned.

  7. #246
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    Reciprocity is not banned by the Gun Free School Zones Act, though technically it does make travel in non-resident states extremely difficult when considering the letter of the law. Only time will tell how a non-resident with a CCW license may fare against such a legal hurdle, but on a level of strict interpretation Eagle2009 is correct, non-residents may not carry through school zones without meeting the federal firearms transport standards, i.e. that the gun be unloaded and in a locked container.

    Not only do people not understand the text of laws, they also don't understand how those laws apply in court. The supremacy clause was brought up early in this thread and mentioned many times after. The supremacy clause does not apply in all situations and does not always rule in favor of the federal government. The supremacy clause only rules in favor of the federal government where state and federal government differ, but the supremacy clause doesn't even apply unless the matter is a specific responsibility of the federal government that is enumerated in the Constitution, and when the Congress intended it's policy to supersede state law. Somebody else posted it here earlier and even bolded the passage, "must always be narrowly tailored to enforce federal constitutional and statutory law only." School zones weren't in the Constitution the last time I checked, and the federal government has lost quite a few supremacy clause claims when the courts ruled that the matters at hand were not matters specifically enumerated to the federal government. Matters concerning schools have been contested as to being federal or state issues for a long time, but school zones themselves would likely be considered more of a state issue. And since the federal statute deferred to state law, it's clear that they did not intend to supersede it, at least not entirely.

    The Supreme Court developed a criteria in Pennsylvania v. Nelson for determining if the supremacy clause could be applied to cause federal law to trump state law where Congress had not specifically stated that a statute preempted other statutes. Chief among these were provisions such as, the original statute was so comprehensive that it left no room for revision or supplementation, the federal interest was so widespread and pervasive that their complete control was an obvious necessity, or in situations where the enforcement of state law would pose an obvious threat to a federal program. Obviously concealed carry in school zones is nothing near any of those situations, so the supremacy clause would pretty much be a non-player in this case.

    Saying this is the worst law currently on the books is overselling the issue by a long shot. I'm not at all saying this issue isn't worth fighting, but there are far worse statutes on the books right now than this one.

    I don't think any of this has been legally addressed in the context of concealed carry at all. Even in the only concealed carry case that came to court, the one in Alabama, the license wasn't the crux of the case at all. His prior criminal record was. How the GFSZA might apply to CCW license holders, and to what extent it might apply, in our court system is still a complete unknown. I'm not saying that's reason not to be worried. But it isn't reason to panic either. There is a legal basis for recognizing out of state CCW licenses as being just as valid as in state licenses in the eyes of the law. Statutory reciprocity agreements are binding legal contracts that extend privileges or rights to others in exchange for the extension of those same rights and privileges in return. The most common example is drivers licenses. And just as your drivers license from one state is just as legal in other states by virtue of reciprocity agreements, so your CCW license can be too. There is a legal basis for that. The reciprocity agreement is saying that your valid out of state license is in fact legally the same as an in state license. And since the federal statute stipulated that it would recognize the state license requirements, the recognition of your out of state license would thus be extended. Would that be successful in court? Hard to say for sure. The world has more than it's fair share of overzealous prosecutors. But simply proclaiming that you'd be up the creek without a paddle is misleading and dishonest. That isn't necessarily the case. It's a mud puddle that none of us would want to step into of course, but it isn't necessarily the end of the world, black hole that has being depicted by some here.

    You could go back and forth on this for a long time. I'd love to see the statute fixed, but it's far from being our highest priority right now. There is some minuscule danger of becoming the object of some overzealous prosecutor somewhere someday, so I guess that's something to consider. But in the end analysis I think the possibility of my being victimized by a criminal somewhere is far higher, so there's no way I'm going to stop carrying and endanger myself or the members of my family by doing so.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  8. #247
    In this case mentioned in the NCGO forum it's not hearsay or a rumor at all. The post was from an instructor, one of her students was the one getting arrested. We are all waiting for the details right now.

  9. #248
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    The incident mentioned in the NCGO forum isn't about a non-resident from out of state, which is the topic of this thread. And the incident in NC, as reported, is not a violation of the federal Gun Free School Zones Act. Either it didn't happen as it was reported, which is quite common with reports in the media and even more common with reports on the internet, or the arresting officer simply didn't know what he was doing and overreacted, which unfortunately also isn't all that uncommon.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  10. #249
    I think that if H.R. 822 passes then this will become a non issue

  11. #250
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    Overland Park, KS
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    Ks exemption

    In ks a ccw can carry on school property but you cannot enter a school building. You can also transport your loaded and accesible firearm through a school zone.

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