Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important) - Page 9
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Thread: Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important)

  1. Quote Originally Posted by OldOwl View Post
    It has been mandatory to be an NRA member at a gun club I go to. This year I'm a member of NRA and GOAL, and challenged the club that either should be sufficient, and they said it was. Money is tight. I might not bother with NRA pretty soon. I'd rather give my money to people who are working hard at the state house every day fighting for our rights.
    You luck owl,you! I have to be a member of the NRA for my gun club because of insurance reasons.

  2.   
  3. #82
    I posted this in another thread. I wrote the ATF (now under the Department Of Justice) to get a response straight from the horses mouth and used Georgia and Florida as examples. I'm probably on another list now but aren't we all. Please read the entire answer to my email and pay particular attention to what I placed in bold. Do what you will but I will continue to carry just as I always have.:


    Thank you for your inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Generally, it is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess a firearm within a school zone. A school zone is defined as being within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial, or private school. This prohibition does not apply to the possession of a firearm on private property not part of school grounds, such as an FFL's business premise (e.g., commercial storefront, residence, or driveway).

    Once a customer leaves private property located within 1,000 feet of a school with a firearm, they may be in violation of Federal law.
    However, in the following situations an individual would not be possessing a firearm in violation of 922(q)(A):
    1. The individual is licensed by the State or political subdivision
    to possess the firearm, and the license was issued after law enforcement officials verified that the individual is qualified to receive the license;
    2. The firearm is unloaded and is contained within a locked
    container or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    3. The firearm is possessed by an individual for use in a
    school-approved program;
    4. The individual or his/her employer is doing so in accordance
    with a contract entered into between the individual and the school;
    5. The individual is a law enforcement officer acting in their
    official capacity; or
    6. The individual is crossing school grounds to reach a public or
    private way. Their firearm is unloaded, and they have permission from the school.

    ATF realizes that not all persons who enter or exit an FFL's premises in such case may fall under one of the above-described statutory exemptions. Therefore, ATF advises that in those States where a permit is not needed, the FFL should ensure that a purchaser's firearm is unloaded and placed in a locked container prior to leaving the business premise.

    In addition, You stated that you have a Georgia State License, ATF does not have any jurisdiction over the State of Georgia, Florida or any other state. You should forward all inquiries regarding State law to the Georgia and Florida. The State Attorney General's Offices can be contacted at the following:

    Office of the Attorney General
    40 Capitol Square
    Atlanta, Georgia 30334-1300
    (404) 656-3300

    And

    Office of the Attorney General
    The Capitol
    PL 01
    Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1050
    (850) 414-3990

    Additional guidance can be obtained by contacting your local ATF office, which can be found at ATF Online - Field Divisions, under Field Divisions.

    Thank you,
    ATF, Firearms Industry Programs Branch

  4. You notice in their response they also mentioned that if you are leaving an FFL without a license your gun should be unloaded and locked. Nowhere in that response did they give you a *smile* and a *wink* to violate Federal Law. Nowhere in that response did they say that if you live in Arizona, where a license is not required to CCW, that you would be okay to carry in violation of Federal Law. ATF does not have jurisdiction over Florida and Georgia law... they have jurisdiction over Federal Law. Georgia and Florida are part of the United States which the ATF has jurisdiction over. With all due respect, just because you have carried a certain way for a certain time frame without getting in trouble, doesn't mean it's legal. All I'm advocating for is a change in the law to adequately protect gun owners.


    We need to merge the two threads somehow. It's counterproductive posting in two.

  5. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    You notice in their response they also mentioned that if you are leaving an FFL without a license your gun should be unloaded and locked. Nowhere in that response did they give you a *smile* and a *wink* to violate Federal Law. Nowhere in that response did they say that if you live in Arizona, where a license is not required to CCW, that you would be okay to carry in violation of Federal Law. ATF does not have jurisdiction over Florida and Georgia law... they have jurisdiction over Federal Law. Georgia and Florida are part of the United States which the ATF has jurisdiction over. With all due respect, just because you have carried a certain way for a certain time frame without getting in trouble, doesn't mean it's legal. All I'm advocating for is a change in the law to adequately protect gun owners.


    We need to merge the two threads somehow. It's counterproductive posting in two.
    As I stated in the other post:

    The question I posed concerned "reciprocity" which you stated is banned by the federal government. I didn't ask about states that don't require licenses. You can bend this anyway you want but I think it's quite clear that RECIPROCITY is not banned or illegal. With the exception of Vermont, those states that do not require licenses to carry also offer a license for reciprocity purposes. Again the main question was whether reciprocity was banned and it's not.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by GFSZA 1995

    ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    Once again, here is the issue. If you have a Georgia license and you go to Tennessee, you can argue that you have been "licensed" by Tennessee, and I agree with you. You can not however, argue that the law enforcement officials in Tennessee verified you were qualified to receive that Tennessee "license." According to the Federal GFSZA 1995 law, not only do the law enforcement authorities of the State you travel to actually have to verify that you are qualified... the law of the State must require that they verify it before your "license" is issued/granted. Many States (including Tennessee) blindly recognize any out-of-state permit. Nowhere does the State law of Tennessee require that you submit to an additional check/interview/phone call/etc conducted by Tennessee law enforcement officers before you are granted your "license" to carry in Tennessee based on your Georgia permit.


    The part of your letter that comments on contacting the State authorities, by its own wording, refers specifically to any questions you may have about State law. ATF wont answer questions about State law... just like they wont answer questions about the dress code at your local restaurant... State law is not their problem or responsibility.

  7. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
    Posts
    1,853
    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    I posted this in another thread. I wrote the ATF (now under the Department Of Justice) to get a response straight from the horses mouth and used Georgia and Florida as examples. I'm probably on another list now but aren't we all. Please read the entire answer to my email and pay particular attention to what I placed in bold. Do what you will but I will continue to carry just as I always have.:


    Thank you for your inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Generally, it is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess a firearm within a school zone. A school zone is defined as being within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial, or private school. This prohibition does not apply to the possession of a firearm on private property not part of school grounds, such as an FFL's business premise (e.g., commercial storefront, residence, or driveway).

    Once a customer leaves private property located within 1,000 feet of a school with a firearm, they may be in violation of Federal law.
    However, in the following situations an individual would not be possessing a firearm in violation of 922(q)(A):
    1. The individual is licensed by the State or political subdivision
    to possess the firearm, and the license was issued after law enforcement officials verified that the individual is qualified to receive the license;

    2. The firearm is unloaded and is contained within a locked
    container or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    3. The firearm is possessed by an individual for use in a
    school-approved program;
    4. The individual or his/her employer is doing so in accordance
    with a contract entered into between the individual and the school;
    5. The individual is a law enforcement officer acting in their
    official capacity; or
    6. The individual is crossing school grounds to reach a public or
    private way. Their firearm is unloaded, and they have permission from the school.

    ATF realizes that not all persons who enter or exit an FFL's premises in such case may fall under one of the above-described statutory exemptions. Therefore, ATF advises that in those States where a permit is not needed, the FFL should ensure that a purchaser's firearm is unloaded and placed in a locked container prior to leaving the business premise.

    In addition, You stated that you have a Georgia State License, ATF does not have any jurisdiction over the State of Georgia, Florida or any other state. You should forward all inquiries regarding State law to the Georgia and Florida. The State Attorney General's Offices can be contacted at the following:

    Office of the Attorney General
    40 Capitol Square
    Atlanta, Georgia 30334-1300
    (404) 656-3300

    And

    Office of the Attorney General
    The Capitol
    PL 01
    Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1050
    (850) 414-3990

    Additional guidance can be obtained by contacting your local ATF office, which can be found at ATF Online - Field Divisions, under Field Divisions.

    Thank you,
    ATF, Firearms Industry Programs Branch
    I'm keeping a copy of that!!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  8. Once again, this letter does nothing but re-confirm ATF's continued commitment to enforce the Federal Laws they are sworn to enforce. You are wanting to read a *smile* *wink* in the letter which does not exist.

  9. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Posts
    63
    I don't see a problem here. The BATFE defers to state law. If there were an issue, the sate would be responsible for prosecuting or not. Once that decision was made, would the FEDs waste their time?

    Curious....
    "I got you in a Stranglehold, baby. And then I crushed your face" -Ted Nugent

  10. #89
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Lowcountry, SC
    Posts
    457
    Quote Originally Posted by tanker1983 View Post
    I don't see a problem here. The BATFE defers to state law. If there were an issue, the sate would be responsible for prosecuting or not. Once that decision was made, would the FEDs waste their time?

    Curious....
    I suggest everyone read the response from BATFE again. The BATFE did not "defer to state law". They did two things in their statement. First, they answered a question. Second, they stated a policy.

    Regardless of how RonWill posted the question, they answered the question "It is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess a firearm within a school zone?", which included stating the exceptions. They then stated their policy regarding state law. There was absolutely no link between the two questions and no mention of reciprocity.

    Did you see the letter from ATF posted earlier in the thread? That is the only document from BATFE posted on this sight that addresses reciprocal permits. And it very specifically says that having a CCW from another state is NOT one of the exceptions to the law.

  11. Yes, the only letter from BATFE we have addressing reciprocity is this one which specifically states they do not recognize reciprocity under any circumstances. Ronwill's letter says absolutely nothing whatsoever to the contrary.


    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

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