The Secret Government Terrorist Watch List
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Thread: The Secret Government Terrorist Watch List

  1. #1

    The Secret Government Terrorist Watch List

    Watch lists, guns and government
    by Bob Barr
    as published in The Atlanta Journal Constitution
    Monday, June 29, 2009 at 9:00 AM

    The secret government "Terrorist Watch List," reportedly already swelled to more than 1.1 million names, will have an addendum, if gun control advocates in Congress have their way. This new addendum — also to be cloaked in secrecy — would empower the U.S. Attorney General to deny a person the ability to exercise their Second Amendment rights to purchase a firearm.

    While it is not surprising that some members of Congress are again using fear of terrorism to implement a gun-control agenda, the openly unconstitutional legislative language proponents are employing is troubling.

    Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) is leading the effort in the Senate, while another well-known gun control advocate — Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) — is directing the House initiative. They have introduced identical bills — the "Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009." This proposal would give the attorney general the power to unilaterally and in secret develop a watch list of persons believed to be unworthy of possessing a firearm or any explosive.

    This new "dangerous terrorist" watch list would include names based not on hard evidence of criminal activity, but on nothing more than the subjective conclusion by the attorney general that a person is "appropriately suspected" (whatever that means) of engaging in some manner of assisting or preparing for acts of domestic or international terrorism. The American people would never be privy to what criteria might be employed by the attorney general to determine whether someone is an "appropriate suspect," and they would have no way of knowing why they might be denied the ability to purchase a firearm.

    If a person were to be refused "permission" to purchase a firearm or explosive, and if they subsequently filed a lawsuit in federal court to find out why, the government still could keep such information secret. In other words, the attorney general could deny a U.S. citizen the ability to own a firearm, and never have to give the reason.

    For legislators like Lautenberg and King, who apparently have absolute faith in unelected government officials to make the right decisions for the right reasons at the right times (and never be required to explain those decisions), one has only to consider the checkered history of post-9/11 "terrorist" watch lists to see the folly of such perspective. Stories abound of persons denied the ability to board a commercial aircraft, or greatly delayed in being allowed on board, for no reason other than their name erroneously appeared on some "watch list." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), have been among this not-so-elite group.

    A report earlier this year by the FBI's inspector general chronicled extensive internal problems with the terrorist watch list maintained by that agency. The IG found numerous examples of inaccuracies, incomplete entries, out-of-date information and inclusion of information "unrelated to terrorism." While the inconvenience of not being able to board an airliner for a business trip or a vacation can be a real headache, being refused the ability to purchase a firearm to protect one's life clearly raises the stakes.

    The government already has remedies already at its disposal to keep firearms out of the hands of known or suspected terrorists. Under existing federal law, there are numerous categories of persons prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms; including persons in violation of immigration laws, convicted felons, illicit drug users and others. And if a person truly is a known or suspected terrorist, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — as the federal law enforcement agency primarily responsible for enforcing the nation's gun laws — certainly should be made aware of that information. We don't need a secret, anti-Second Amendment watch list to implement effective law enforcement in America.


    ###

    Bob Barr, an Atlanta attorney, is a former member of Congress and Libertarian presidential candidate.

    Related Post On This Forum, With Further Details:
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/2nd-a...cation-10.html


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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    And of course, every member of any web discussion board discussing right-wing topics like promotion of firearms ownership, military surplus purchasing and restoration, survivalism or preparedness must needs be preparing for assisting in terrorist attacks in the form of resisting government action on their behalf, like seizing their hoarded food, ammunition, and fuel, telling them how to educate their children, or demanding tribute for the privilege of renting government land in the form of a deed.

    If a person were to be refused "permission" to purchase a firearm or explosive, and if they subsequently filed a lawsuit in federal court to find out why, the government still could keep such information secret. In other words, the attorney general could deny a U.S. citizen the ability to own a firearm, and never have to give the reason.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    It's so sad when the illiterate attain high office.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  4. #3
    It is beginning to feel like the early days of Nazi Germany. This is the change we have comming to us. I would like to thank all the idiots that voted for the change man.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  5. #4
    Join Date
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    Location
    Indiana
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    Oh, this is absolutely the middle days of Nazi America. No question.
    When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
    Don't retreat. Just reload.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Kempner, Tx
    Posts
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    Just remember the Warsaw ghetto, it was the Jews that refused to be disarmed, that held off Nazi Storm Troopers. A bunch of rag-tag civilians, with guns, keeping Hitler's elite at bay!! There's a lesson in there somewhere.....

  7. #6
    It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.




  8. Oh Great.

    I'm sure my name is so on that list.

    Probably top five.

  9. #8
    Alert: Bill To Ban One Million
    People From Gun Sales
    Gun Hater Lautenberg Proposes "Extraordinary Powers" Be Given To the U.S. Attorney General To Limit Gun Sales.

    Obama and the White House are looking the other way as Lautenberg seeks to ban guns from 1,000,000 US citizens on a secret FBI terrorist watch list. Obama has deliberately and repeatedly lied to America's 90 million gun owners across the country (who own in excess of 270 million firearms) when he insisted that he would not try to take away anyone's firearms. Now Obama's silence endorses Lautenberg's latest attempt at banning guns.

    Lautenberg introduced legislation that would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists. We must defeat this bill from giving extraordinary powers to limit gun sales to the Attorney General.

    Lautenberg To Reveal Names on Secret List

    The names of the people on the watch list are secret, and Lautenberg said he was frustrated by the F.B.I.'s refusal to disclose to investigators details and specific cases of gun purchases beyond the aggregate data.

    Gun hater Lautenberg requested the gun grab study from the Government Accountability Office. He is using statistics, compiled in the report that is scheduled for public release next week to invade US citizen's privacy and put more restrictions on the Second Amendment.

    Lautenberg said he wanted a better understanding of who is being allowed to buy guns.

    How you ask? Trial by innuendo and misinformation that has put 1,000,000 Americans and maybe even you on a terrorist watch list without your knowledge by saying: people placed on this government's terrorist watch list can be stopped from getting on a plane or getting a visa, and will also be stopped from buying a gun.

    Lautenberg wants gun purchases stopped for just being on the list. Current law states federal officials must find some other disqualification of a would-be gun buyer, like being a felon, an illegal alien or a drug addict.

    Is your name on the list and can you get it removed?

    The government's consolidated watch list, used to identify people suspected of links to terrorists, has grown to more than one million names since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. It also has drawn widespread criticism over the prevalence of mistaken identities and unclear links to terrorism.

    A CNN story raises questions about mistaken identities on the list - James Robinson is a retired Air National Guard brigadier general and a commercial pilot for a major airline who flies passenger planes around the country.

    James Robinson is a retired brigadier general and a commercial pilot. His name is on the terrorist "watch list."

    He has even been certified by the Transportation Security Administration to carry a weapon into the cockpit as part of the government's defense program should a terrorist try to commandeer a plane.

    But there's one problem: James Robinson, the pilot, has difficulty even getting to his plane because his name is on the government's terrorist "watch list."

    That means he can't use an airport kiosk to check in; he can't do it online; he can't do it curbside. Instead, like thousands of Americans whose names match a name or alias used by a suspected terrorist on the list, he must go to the ticket counter and have an agent verify that he is James Robinson, the pilot, and not James Robinson, the terrorist.

    "Shocking's a good word; frustrating," Robinson -- the pilot -- said. "I'm carrying a weapon, flying a multimillion-dollar jet with passengers, but I'm still screened as, you know, on the terrorist watch list."

    History Repeating Itself?

    The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit."

    LAUTENBERG'S MOTIVES

    Motives for his latest gun ban to are twofold:

    * First, he is taking small steps to enact gun control legislation this is just one step.
    * Second, eradicate the gun culture altogether.

    All that seems to be on the minds of the Anti-Gun Senators and at the offices of gun control extremists is figuring out how to invade your privacy to erode and eventually destroy the right, and the means, of self-defense.

    Now the Anti-Gun Coalitions are trying to use a self supporting GAO study to destroy the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms to protect themselves under the law. They are attacking and hiding behind an Anti-Terrorist Agenda while getting political and financial support from:

    George Soros a Hungarian-born billionaire bank rolling efforts with his check book and spending more that $100 million to destroy the Constitution.
    (also millions to get the usurper in office)

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (CA) admitted that "guns would be banned and confiscated" if she could have her way. "Mr. & Mrs. America, turn them all in"...

    The United Nations actively pushes globalism seeking to disarm all Americans. (AKA: Global Poverty Act, contains a global gun ban).

    Stand up against this attack! Stand up for the right to not only defend yourself, but to defend your family, your children, your friends, and your classmates!

    CCRKBA :: LAUTENBERG LEGISLATION CLOAKS GUN BAN AGENDA AS ANTI-TERROR TOOL

    U.S. Senate: Senators Home

    Representative Offices - United States House of Representatives, 111th Congress, 1st Session

    NRA-ILA :: Action Center

    Related Info:
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/2nd-a...cation-10.html

    S.1317:
    S. 1317: A bill to increase public safety by permitting the Attorney General to deny the transfer of... (GovTrack.us)

    H.R. 2159:
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-2159

    Please write, telephone, email, snail mail, fax and otherwise hound, both your U.S. Senators asking them to in no uncertain terms oppose S.1317 and your U.S. Representative to oppose the related bill H.R. 2159.

  10. #9
    Is it just me, or do others see the similarities between the recent coup in Venezuela and the current administration in the U.S.? Is it any wonder why Obama really didn't care when the Iranians rallied, but went ballistic immediately when the leader of Venezuela was deposed after trying to trash his country's constitution?

    Obama can see the writing on the wall, and it's only a matter of time before we depose this faux POTUS. Here is Obama in bed with Chavez and the Castro brothers, and with good reason...he is the same kind of threat to freedom and liberty.

    I think things will start getting really ugly around 9/12/09, in Washington D.C.
    -= Piece Corps =-

  11. Source: Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

    Sen. Lautenberg’s new “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009” (HB 111-2159 and SB111-1317) would place unprecedented authority in the hands of the Attorney General to deny someone their Second Amendment rights without having been convicted, or even charged, with any crime. Instead, under this legislation, someone whose name is added – for whatever reason – to a terrorist watch list can suddenly find himself or herself prohibited from exercising their constitutionally-protected rights based on nothing more than suspicion.

    You too can be a Rightwing Extremist and put on the Terrorist Watchlist. Here are some of the things that Homeland Security feels may indicate that you are a Rightwing Extremist:

    • If you are a veteran with combat training
    • If you are unhappy with the current economic or political climate
    • If you believe in the US Constitution , States Rights and a limited Federal Government
    • If you support the Second Amendment
    • If you oppose outsourcing US jobs
    • If you believe in protecting our borders
    • If you believe in the sovereignty of the US
    • If you oppose weapons restrictions and bans
    • If you stockpile ammo or guns
    • If you stockpile food and supplies
    • If you use the Internet to learn about weapons and tactics
    • If you use SSL or other encryption methods to communicate over the Internet

    The source of this information is here

    Some of us fit all of these criteria. Most of us fit some of the criteria. I’ll bet all of us fit ONE. I fit all of these, yet I am just a proud American.

    An unacceptable problem with the proposed Lautenberg legislation is that the Attorney General decides who get put on the list. He can make up any criteria for the list he wants. What happened to due process?

    The other unacceptable problem with this is that you can be put on the list without even being investigated. Then once you’re on the list, there is no way to get off. Here is the source Department of Justice report.
    Semper fi

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