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Thread: Gibbs: Birther issue 'nonsense'

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    We need to check our emotions at the door. Bring facts and data to the floor and prove the point without regards to feelings. I firmly believe we have been hoodwinked about ALL documents concerning Obama and his MRS. I would love nothing better than for all this to be settled once and for all.

    We all know that ain't gonna happen. Obama would rather toy with the people rather than be one of us. That in and of itself will prove to be his political undoing. He cannot connect with the average Joe. The beer summit proved that. He does not care about the rule of law, the firing of CEO's and the charges of racism and stupidity towrads the police show nothing but contempt for the men in blue and the laws of the land.

    To which I add Mr. Obama, Would you please be so kind as to prove yourself constitutionally fit to hold the Office of the President of the United States of America by displaying your birth certificate (bearing a doctors signature and a hospital in Hawaii)? It is a simple thing to do. If you cannot perform such a simple task of servitude towards your fellow man, your sir are not fit to serve as my president!
    Emotions didn't really have anything to do with my response. The fact is Chuck Norris did make the statement concerning newspaper records. The fact is Chuck Norris even made the statement the letter wasn't because he believed Obama wasn't natural born, it was a matter of trust. The fact is an investigation was conducted by McCains campaign team as shown. The fact is Hawaii officials have made multiple statements that Obama's birth certificate is on file. I'm not taking anything out of context just stating exactly what was said. The fact is that the Senate has congratulated Hawaii on statehood and Obama's 1961 birth there. I simply believe that Obama needs to be carefully watched, along with his cabinet. I don't believe it is because he wasn't born in the U.S. There's no question concerning Clinton's, Biden's, and many others birth locations. I don't trust them either. By the way Festus, I still enjoy your arguments. By the way here's an excerpt from Chuck Norris' letter:

    Believe it or not, I'm not writing you to challenge whether or not you were born in America, though I see nothing wrong with the American public's voicing that constitutionally based grievance with someone in your esteemed position. As one blogger wrote, after all, "We aren't talking about a 12-year-old qualifying to play Little League here." Or as Ronald Reagan once said, "Trust but verify."

    I must admit that I find it a bit of a groundless stretch not to believe in the birth announcements in two major Hawaiian newspapers in August 1961, in which Hawaii's Health Department would have been required to post information it received directly from hospitals: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4." Nevertheless, that proof doesn't answer why you refuse to reveal your original birth certificate and end the growing tides of controversy.

    I'm writing you because this is no longer a matter merely about proving you meet a presidential prerequisite in the Constitution. Refusing to post your original birth certificate is an unwise political and leadership decision that is enabling the "birther" controversy. The nation you are called to lead is experiencing a growing swell of conspirators who are convinced that you are covering up something. So why not just prove them wrong and shut them up?
    Last edited by ronwill; 08-05-2009 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Added Info

  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
    I will reiterate... a weak theory and media talking point that has no legal standing...

    family members routinely post such announcements...

    either in multiple papers or when the two or more newspapers are held by the same parent company common information often appears in all owned publications...

    The democrats on the Usurper Obama's extreme left side of the fence would like to make this out to be a Republican fringe issue...

    The fact remains it is an American issue...
    raised by individuals from all parties...

    Ever hear about PUMA?

    39 million democrats that voted for Hilary in the Primaries instead of the Usurper for this very reason...
    And subsequently voted for McCain in the General...
    newspaper clippings that took two years to show up, instead of real, legal records such as his long form birth certificate...


    WTFU Sheeple...

    Demand the truth, not disinformation, and distractions from the facts...

  4. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    St. Louis/Missouri
    None of this matters. I don't care what the hospital said or what any official in Hawaii said or what McCain's campaign says. I am from the SHOW ME state and until I see the long form birth certificate he is not eligible. IMAO.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same. - Ronald Reagan

  5. #54
    "Rules for Radicals" - Saul Alinsky

    Are you familiar with Saul Alinsky's rules?

    Identify your enemy's, isolate them and ridicule them... Saul Alinsky

    Any of this Sound familiar?

    birther... right wing extremist... crazy republicans... birth certificate nonsense, tea bagging rednecks... this is not about taxes or government intervention, its about racist white republicans...

    Radical Saul Alinsky was Obama's role model and mentor, and whose teachings he has often wrote of and taught...
    Including but not limited to: ACORN...

    Here are the rules:

    RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

    RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

    RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

    RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

    RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

    RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

    RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

    RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

    RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

    RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

    RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

    RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
    "Rules for Radicals" - Saul Alinsky

    Are you familiar with Saul Alinsky's rules?

  7. #56

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
    just a couple of things to get you on the road to enlightenment...
    [B]Saul Alinsky’s son: “Obama learned his lesson well”
    Sorry Bohemian but you've lost my support. Wikipedia and You Tube are NOT viable evidnece for any argument. Any one can post on You Tube and edit or post any info on Wikipedia. I will, however, admit I'm wrong should real evidence come forward on Obama's not being born in the U.S. Until then my belief is mine and yours is yours. This is the only truth both of us can agree on in this matter. Maybe time will tell.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    Sorry Bohemian but you've lost my support. Wikipedia and You Tube are NOT viable evidnece for any argument. Any one can post on You Tube and edit or post any info on Wikipedia. I will, however, admit I'm wrong should real evidence come forward on Obama's not being born in the U.S. Until then my belief is mine and yours is yours. This is the only truth both of us can agree on in this matter. Maybe time will tell.
    I respect your opinion, although it is not my own...

    Regardless of how valid/credible in your opinion any information I have or anybody has posted is, it is pretty hard to deny Barack & Michelle Obama's following & teaching and quotes of Saul Alinsky's book "Rules for Radicals"

    American Thinker: Barack Obama, the Quintessential Liberal Fascist

    The Obama-Alinsky Connection

    Conservative Pundits and the Liberal Manifesto - Short Stack

    "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout,I chose my friends carefully.The more politically active black students.The foreign students.The Chicanos.The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets.At night,in the dorms,we discussed neocolonialism,Franz Fanon,Eurocentrism,and patriarchy.When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake,we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints.We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure.We were alienated." - Barack Obama - DREAMS FROM MY FATHER:A STORY OF RACE AND INHERITANCE p100-101

    The emperor has no birth certificate

  10. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    Sorry Bohemian but you've lost my support. Wikipedia and You Tube are NOT viable evidence for any argument. Any one can post on You Tube and edit or post any info on Wikipedia. I will, however, admit I'm wrong should real evidence come forward on Obama's not being born in the U.S. Until then my belief is mine and yours is yours. This is the only truth both of us can agree on in this matter. Maybe time will tell.
    WorldDailyNet is not creditable either. The National Review, of the conservative William F. Buckley fame, had the following to say,

    National Review Online: Suborned In the U.S.A. : NPR

    The mission of National Review has always included keeping the Right honest, which includes debunking crackpot conspiracy theories. The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff. Even Obama's dual Kenyan citizenship is of dubious materiality: It is a function of foreign law, involving no action on his part (to think otherwise, you'd have to conclude that if Yemen passed a law tomorrow saying, "All Americans except, of course, Jews are hereby awarded Yemeni citizenship," only Jewish Americans could henceforth run for president). In any event, even if you were of a mind to indulge the Kenyan-birth fantasy, stop, count to ten, and think: Hillary Clinton. Is there any chance on God's green earth that, if Obama were not qualified to be president, the Clinton machine would have failed to get that information out?


    So, end of story, right? Well, no. The relevance of information related to the birth of our 44th president is not limited to his eligibility to be our 44th president. On this issue, NRO's editorial has come in for some blistering criticism. The editorial argues:

    The fundamental fiction is that Obama has refused to release his "real" birth certificate. This is untrue. The document that Obama has made available is the document that Hawaiian authorities issue when they are asked for a birth certificate. There is no secondary document cloaked in darkness, only the state records that are used to generate birth certificates when they are requested.

    On reflection, I think this was an ill-considered assertion. (I should add that I saw a draft of the editorial before its publication, was invited to comment, and lodged no objection to this part.) The folly is made starkly clear in the photos that accompany this angry (at NRO) post from Dave Jeffers, who runs a blog called "Salt and Light."

    To summarize: What Obama has made available is a Hawaiian "certification of live birth" (emphasis added), not a birth certificate (or what the state calls a "certificate of live birth"). The certification form provides a short, very general attestation of a few facts about the person's birth: name and sex of the newborn; date and time of birth; city or town of birth, along with the name of the Hawaiian island and the county; the mother's maiden name and race; the father's name and race; and the date the certification was filed. This certification is not the same thing as the certificate, which is what I believe we were referring to in the editorial as "the state records that are used to generate birth certificates [sic] when they are requested."

    To the contrary, "the state records" are the certificate. They are used to generate the more limited birth certifications on request. As the Jeffers post shows, these state records are far more detailed. They include, for example, the name of the hospital, institution, or street address where the birth occurred; the full name, age, birthplace, race, and occupation of each parent; the mother's residential address (and whether that address is within the city or town of birth); the signature of at least one parent (or "informant") attesting to the accuracy of the information provided; the identity and signature of an attending physician (or other "attendant") who certifies the occurrence of a live birth at the time and place specified; and the identity and signature of the local registrar who filed the birth record.

    Plainly, this is different (additional) information from what is included in the certification. Yet, our editorial says that "several state officials have confirmed that the information in permanent state records is identical to that on the president's birth certificate [by which we clearly meant 'certification']," and that the "director of Hawaii's health department and the registrar of records each has personally verified that the information on Obama's birth certificate [i.e., certification] is identical to that in the state's records, the so-called vault copy." (Italics mine.)

    That misses the point. The information in the certification may be identical as far as it goes to what's in the complete state records, but there are evidently many more details in the state records than are set forth in the certification. Contrary to the editors' description, those who want to see the full state record the certificate or the so-called "vault copy" are not on a wild-goose chase for a "secondary document cloaked in darkness." That confuses their motives (which vary) with what they've actually requested (which is entirely reasonable). Regardless of why people may want to see the vault copy, what's been requested is a primary document that is materially more detailed than what Obama has thus far provided.

    Now, let's address motives for a moment. Are some of those demanding the full state records engaged in a futile quest to prove Obama is not a U.S. citizen? Are they on what the editors call "the hunt for a magic bullet that will make all the unpleasant complications of [Obama's] election and presidency disappear"? Sure they are. But not everyone who wants to see the full state records falls into that category. I, for one, have very different reasons for being curious.
    Republican Party has been taken over by the Four Horsemen of Calumny,
    Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry and Smear.

  11. #60
    I would believe WorldDailyNet before I would believe conservative William F. Buckley.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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