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Thread: reason you should support Health Care Reform

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Creswell, Oregon
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfling68 View Post
    Let's not forget, Repeal HIPPA.

    Also, capitalism, when left to its own devices, inevitably results in corruption, followed by opression of the sheep and supression of the rest of us. Capitalism needs to be controlled, just like everything else.
    Why are CEOs making 300 times average worker pay (at our most prosporous, it was, I believe, 50 times), and taking HUGE bonuses while (or for) laying off people and driving their companies into the ground? Liberty, equality, and fair play need to be regulated into the system.

    There are laws and rules that restrict freedom, and laws that enforce it.
    You complain of rich fatcat CEO's. I haven't heard any complaints about sports figures make millions or collage coaches making big fatcat deals just to win a game while we pay teachers to educate our children very little.
    "You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who gets the credit" - Ronald Reagan

  3. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    South Carolina/Charleston
    Hey tollett: My "rub" with the healthcare package is that everyone agrees that reform was needed, but it could have been done with major or minor tweaks of the current system without a complete government takeover. You will dismiss the next statement of mine BUT this healthcare plan is NOT about healthcare, it is about CONTROL of more than 1/6 of our economy in an area that is absolutely vital to every citizen. If you think that the next bunch of crap that comes out of DC is about illegal aliens or energy you are living in a fantasy world--it is about 20 million democratic votes and about control of another 20-30% of our economy. If you believe there are savings and deficit reduction at the end of this loose lug nuts rainbow on healthcare, you are in la la land---there are NO federal programs that have ever met their financial limits and the bigger they are, the worse they are---SS has been expanded to the point where, currently, more money goes out then comes in and medicare/medicaid is a total financial disaster. These programs should have first on this idiot's agenda--he should have fixed the most broken current programs and then started on other programs if he truly had this country and its citizens interests at heart. I wish you well brother, but you are way off base in your thinking.

  4. #53
    What they did not tell us of course...

    Nearly 108 Trillion with a T in U.S. Unfunded Liability's, meaning they not only do not have a plan to pay for it; they do not have a clue how to pay for it...

    What does 100% of this 108 Trillion consist of?
    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    The Three Existing Unconstitutional Entitlement Programs:
    1. Social Security
    2. Medicare
    3. Medicaid

    Unconstitutional ObamaCare has now been added...

    Can Anybody Say Weimar Republic?
    Weimar Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." - Edmund Burke

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by jwtollett21 View Post
    1. Your Premiums may go down as a result of the uninsured that currently get treated and never pay for their services used. The hospitals and government have to absorb these costs. We are currently paying more taxes because of this.

    2. You could get paid more at work as health care expenses go up the companies shift cost to the workers or cut back in other ways. If the bill will control cost your employer will be able to give you some more money.

    3. Peace of mind. Say you have health insurance now, your healthy and have a great job. But say something happens to you and you develop a medical condition and for some reason have to change jobs or become self employed. You might or will be denied coverage.

    4. Emergency Room waits would be shorter because your uninsured use these doctors for their primary care doctors which makes the people who have insurance thats their have to wait longer.

    5. Small business will benefit due to reform creating subsidies to help them pay for insurance for their employees. This would also boost the economy.

    6. Plan will not add to the federal deficit says chairman of the senate finance committee

    Folks the time for health care reform has come. Whether you agree with Barack Obama or the GOP lets work together to come up with a plan. The USA is ranked 37th in the world by the world health organization. We should be #1. This is America please put the petty politics aside and lets be positive and due something that will benefit this great nation. 46 million people are uninsured we must do something about this.
    1) If you think your insurance premium will drop because of this bill, then you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you? Insurance companies have a rating system that is applied to the "risk" (that's you) that they are insuring. The better risk you are (health conditions) the lower the rate you will have to pay. All that will now go out the window. Everybody will pay at the same level (of risk) which will be at the highest level not the lowest.

    2) Now why do you think your boss is going to increase your wages??? Are you now a better worker? As pointed out in the above item premiums will be going up not down. What you will see is, some layoffs because with the increase in premiums and taxes to cover this nightmare business won't be able to afford as many employees.

    3) You are already covered...ever hear of COBRA, and once you exhaust COBRA then you will be HIPPA qualified and you can NOT be denied health insurance coverage. Now this coverage won't be cheap, cause you will have to pay all of the cost...However, under COBRA you may be able to get help from the govt. There are so plans there that will pay up to 80% of your premium for a while.

    4) Not sure about this one...I've been in ER's that only had 3 patients waiting and it still to 3 hours. Doctors only seem to have 3 speeds slow, slower, and stop.

    5) Remember one thing, the govt never does anything for you for nothing, you can bet that there will be tax increases for business along with the increase for the middle class.

    6) There is NO way this won't add to the deficit. Use a little common sense here..How can you add a 980 Billion dollar program and it not add to it. If there were really 500 billion in waste don't you think they would have reclaimed it already?

    The bottom line here is the govt is trying their level best to feed the American people a load of BS. This bill is awful, and the American people had better wake up before it's to late. People need to take responsibility for their own life and well being. The USA has the best medical system in the world ( and if you doubt this ask the Canadian govt officials that come to the US for their health care needs) and this new law does nothing but hurt our country in the long run.

  6. #55
    JSDinTexas Guest
    Has anyone thought to tell the Doctors to stop charging $300 a visit?
    Has anyone thought to tell the Hospitals to stop charging $100 for an aspirin?
    Has anyone thought to tell the drug mfgs to stop charging $500 for a month's supply of pills?

    You know the answers here - and this new kill care simply allows it to continue.

  7. #56
    good point jsdin.
    The hospitals and doctors are ripping everyone off. Robbing medicare and medicaid also

  8. #57
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Panhandle, Idaho
    Quote Originally Posted by jwtollett21 View Post
    good point jsdin.
    The hospitals and doctors are ripping everyone off. Robbing medicare and medicaid also

    So who's ripping off the doctors and hospitals, making them charge these higher prices...well that would be the big DEMOCRAT donors in 2008, Lawyers, Medical Supply Manufacturers and Pharma. The same groups this so called reform bill doesn't do anything to control. Obama and Pelosi's friends.

    You know, some folks wear ignorance like a medal.

  9. My .02 cents. We're going to spend a trillion dollars on a government run system that rations care, creates more government, and will run in the red just like the post office.
    Statistics say there are 40-50 million uninsured in America. It would be a helluva lot cheaper just to buy those 50 million people commercial health insurance policies.
    Don't fool yourself. Nothing from the government is ever "free".

    Toilet, I am glad you are thrilled at being micro-managed by the government and having a government panel decide what healthcare you are entitled to, and when it's time to euthanize you because you have become too expensive to maintain.
    Some people are indeed incapable of making an intelligent decision regarding their life, and need big brother to dictate what is best for them, but I aint one of them.

    Prior to Sunday night, Canadians used to come to the U.S. to get the care and surgeries that they didn't "deserve" in the Canadian-run "free" healthcare system. Guess Bama screwed up their ace-in-the-hole!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by jsdinTexas View Post
    Has anyone thought to tell the Doctors to stop charging $300 a visit?
    Thats pretty cheap. Have you ever run a business?
    8 years med school: $360,000 (cheap from no-name college)
    Malpractice insurance: $150,000 year (cheapest available)
    Office & lab equipment: 2,000,000 (bare-bones models)
    Fees for lab, hospital, operating room privileges: $10,000 month
    Employee salaries, benefits, etc.: $30,000 per employee (for non-specialist workers).
    Hell, I am in data communications and my average bill is $125 an hour. When I go to a business and work on their servers and computers and routers, etc, $300 is a normal bill. I only went to college for 2 years. Why shouldn't a doctor who saves lives and has gone to school for 10 years, and will have to go to shcool his entire career to stay up on the latest medical technology be allowed to make a nice living? From your $300 office visit, the doc puts about $30 in his pocket to take home. The rest goes to expenses and government fees.

    Has anyone thought to tell the drug mfgs to stop charging $500 for a month's supply of pills?
    Do you realize that putting a new medicine on the shelf costs in excess of 50 million dollars? there's years of reseach, testing, tooling, production, FDA fees, etc. etc. and the patent is only good for 10 years. this means the drug companies have 10 years to recover their costs PLUS make a profit before all the generic copies start coming from other countries.
    tell me this, of all the other countries, NAME ONE other country that has put a new miracle drug on the market:______________________________________
    This is why you don't see new miracle drugs coming from Cuba, Mexico, Russia, China, Canada, and all the other government rationed healthcare countries. They all wait until the good old U.S. creates it, develops it, and tests it, then they copy it. The reason you can go to Mexico or Canada and get the same pill for 800% less is because THE ONLY EXPENSE THEY HAVE IN IT IS THE COST TO MANUFACTURE it. They don't have to experiment with it, develope it, test it, create it, or engineer it. It's already been done for them.

  11. Look, Toilet found a friend. JS you could find better company, especially around here.

    First of all, Obama should go back to law school and re-learn the difference between rights and entitlements. Only the Bill of Rights can create, or in certain cases, document pre-existing, rights. Everything else from the 20th century is an entitlement. Hope that's clear. Health insurance, and yes even health care, is not a right. It costs money. People with no money have to do without many of the luxuries in life. Maybe even health care. Sad but true.

    Next - and not in Toilet's original order - the CBO can ONLY analyze the numbers given to it by congress. They don't even get to opine whether they believe in the numbers they're analyzing. To understand things, think of the FHA. They insure TRILLIONS of dollars in mortgages with a vast shortfall of reserves. Their UNFUNDED liability is staggeringly large but - it appears nowhere in the budgets passed each year. So if you ignore the possibility of mortgage defaults, you don't have to think about the vast inadequacy of the reserves, then you can say FHA is healthy as ever while it continues to insure ever more billions in loans annually. If you really think the gov't can shrink Medicare benefits by a half-trillion dollars, roll out another 800 billion or so in expenses for the obamacare nightmare, without having it throw the deficit ever further into the red, you're either astoundingly ignorant or wholly unschooled in even basic economics. Can you balance a checkbook or do you just write checks until they're all gone? Hello?

    Of Course premiums will go up. The same insurers will now have to insure tweens for about 3-4 more years, ignore pre-existing conditions, and take on millions more high-risk insureds. Their premium/risk ratio will implode if they don't raise premiums. Everyone in a large pool, like employer-provided plans, will also feel the pinch. Rates on ALL health insurance products will go up, because the risk will rise substantially. Insurance companies run on small profit margins, depending on volume to make their actuarial projections run true and hit their profit targets. It doesn't take a wizard to understand the truth behind this analysis, just have to clear your eyes of the fairy dust the dems are throwing at you. With the Lyin King Obama at the head of the pack. How many times did he promise everyone in America will see $ 2500 per family reductions in premiums.

    What else? Oh yeah - employers passing on savings to you? LOL. Can i have some of what you're smoking? If there actually would be savings, they'd suck it up. But since there will actually be premium increases, they'll either sock it to us all, or they'll drop their plans altogether and toss you to the exchange.

    Adding somewhere between 20-40 million more people to the rolls of the insured will certainly not improve accessibility to health care. Wait times at ERs happen, and will continue to - they have to triage and deal with real emergencies in priority. But what about primary care, OB-GYN, cardiologists, every specialist? They will be busier than ever. Lots of DRs these days don't even take new patients. Where are these newly insured going to go? Without re-educating them, probably right back to the ERs everytime they get the sniffles. As far as that goes, i am not willing to pay one dime of my income to cover illegal aliens, except for their ticket back home. Another case of the non-productive riding on the sweat and blood of the productive. Every damn senator and congressman should have to read and write a report on Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" before they ever get seated. Turn those idiots back into Americans who believe in free enterprise and capitalism, it would.

    I'm pissed off about this stupid bill. They ignored the millions who protested, scoffing at us - they actually said we were too stupid to understand the bill. Yeah right. Stack 5 reams of paper up atop one another, there's the friggin bill. Not one of those morons in congress has read, let alone understood, the whole bill. Impossible. There is a revolt in the air - November can't get here soon enough. Repeal! will be the winning slogan.

    The silver lining? It will take the various agencies a year or more to write the regulations to actually enact this massive clusterfu**. So well into 2011 before it can actually take effect, i'm pretty confident - meaning if we can repeal this pig soon after November, it should be without lasting harm. Then we can take the bits that make sense - such as portability, pre-existing condition denials, tort-reform (were you aware that some 10% of doctors are responsible for some 80% of medical malpractice cases?) and get the AMA to police its own and disbar the bad practitioners. A pool of funds to assist in care of the truly sick and impoverished? Maybe. But the entire system doesn't have to be gutted to do the right things, and it surely doesn't take 2500 unintelligible pages to write good laws.

    okay, i'm done.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants ... for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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