Religion and Self-Defense - Page 5
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Thread: Religion and Self-Defense

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsgeek View Post
    There is no constitutional separation of church and state. That phrase was taken, out of context, from a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist association in response to questions concerning the formation of a NATIONAL religion. Most states, when the constitution was ratified, had some form of state (sponsored or recognized) religion. The concern was the federal government mandating a national religion similar to the Church of England. This is forbidden by the first amendment, of course. What is also forbidden is the making of a law RESTRICTING religion in any form, including a state religion. The current use stems from SC Justice Hugo Black and has been taken as gospel (and wrongly considered to be constitutional law) since 1947. If it were truly so the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) would not have had a state sponsored (Illinois) extermination order issued, or been officially disbanded by the US government in 1890 for their beliefs. Please study some history and the constitution before claiming these things.
    Yaah! What you said. I always try to tell people there is no such thing as separation of church and state! Since people do insist that there is, it can be used to defend a point on the other side! So therefore
    what GA50AE said is very valid and I agree with him. That is to say for those that believe there is a separation can use this as a defense.

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  3. #42
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    I actually clicked on this thread by accident.
    For those that believe that life is a gift from..fill in the blank...and some believe you should never take your own life because it is not yours to take...
    then it seems to me that you don't just have a right to preserve it you have an obligation not just to preserve it but to protect it!

  4. #43
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    The issue is not so much there exists any official or documented separation of church and state, but on the contrary, the insistence on the part of the radical religiously warped that their religion applies to every facet of life, public and private, whether the subject of their spiritual views likes it or not.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    The issue is not so much there exists any official or documented separation of church and state, but on the contrary, the insistence on the part of the radical religiously warped that their religion applies to every facet of life, public and private, whether the subject of their spiritual views likes it or not.
    There are two parts to your comment and I don't think either part is what was intended for discussion here by the OP

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapGun View Post
    I always try to tell people there is no such thing as separation of church and state!
    Hmmmm. Like I said in my first reply in this discussion, there is no seperation to the religiously preoccupied. Doesn't matter the subject, thus the OP's original question and your steerage to the separation issue. So I reiterate:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    The issue is not so much there exists any official or documented separation of church and state, but on the contrary, the insistence on the part of the radical religiously warped that their religion applies to every facet of life, public and private, whether the subject of their spiritual views likes it or not.
    There will never be any separation between anything and the religiously preoccupied's beliefs. Every aspect of living consciousness is in some way relevant to the belief system and subservient to it. Guns and their use for the purpose of self defense is just another facet of this self-asserted illusion.

    OP's intended discussion? Why don't we encourage more application of deadly force philosophy in the faith-based domain these days?

    Puhleeeez.

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokey View Post
    I am really surprised there is even a dedicated section like this......seems much of this could be covered elsewhere already? Political views and religious beliefs just don't seem to be a good topic of discussion on any forum, just my simple observation though.
    Perhaps I saw the topic title differently than you did, Pokey. I perceived the question to be one of whether or not self defense and religion were compatible. One often reads or hears, generally from the Liberal "news" media or members of the more Liberal mainstream Christian denominations, that armed self defense is inimical to Christ's teachings. Personally, I believe that such claims ignore clear Biblical evidence to the contrary and that we who believe our lives are gifts which should be cherished and defended should educate ourselves to fight such false claims.

    The need for such education makes this a very valid topic for discussion.

  8. #47
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    Don't label everything the way you see it. There was no "STEERAGE" in my comment. You can tell this by the fact I quoted IdsGeek directly. so it was a comment on what he said not on what the op posted.
    There will never be any separation between anything and the religiously preoccupied's beliefs. Every aspect of living consciousness is in some way relevant to the belief system and subservient to it. I don't disagree with your quote here. I am glad though that there are people of commitment out there, and I think that's the way it should be for such committed people whether or not I agree with them. It is a relief from those "moderates" with no core belief.
    At least you know where they are coming from and it makes it easier to put into perspective.
    Just please do not confuse my sentiments with groups of people that are committed through their words and actions to hurt, harm and eliminate us!

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    And right you are, Pokey. But you see the problem comes in when the religious whackos wear their beliefs on their sleeve, trying to inject it into every conversation, regardless of the topic. (see 6shooter, above)

    This lead to such angst in this particular forum space awhile back, Luke tried to appease them by providing an aside area where the activity would hopefully proceed with minimal disruption elsewhere. At one point the true believers supposedly conducted a mass defection to another site where their bigoted and hateful discussions would be more generally accepted.

    Unfortunately it seems a few of them stuck around. Oh well.
    Yeah, we did.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  10. #49

    Smile The Gun vs The Church

    For those who scratch their heads as to "should I carry in church"? The answer is "YES"! Have we forgotten those who have been shot and killed while attending church services. Children going to church to practice for different things. Preachers preaching and a man walks down and shoots the preacher right in the middle of services. Martin Luther King's mother was killed while in church. I am a Minister and have been since July 12, 1972 and a firearms instructor since 1975 serving the military and different federal, state agencies, NRA, 4-H club among others. I train snipers, counter-sniper, handguns, rifles, shotguns among othersDo I carry while in church? Let's just say when I leave for church my house is minus either a Sig P226 40 S&W or .357sig or a Colt Gov. Model 45acp. Where ever you go you can find the devil's agent and if he points a gun at me...RIP (I train my students to shot to STOP), double and triple taps.

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by weekendskp View Post
    Not trying to hijack this wonderfully enlightening thread, but would someone answer a question? Why do most States CCW laws restrict carrying in churches? It's a valid question. Does being in church provide some safe haven from a criminal trying to rob the collection plate at gun point?
    I think if you research them far enough you'll find that most of those laws prohibiting guns in churches stem from the era following the War Between the States. Blacks taking their guns to church with them made it inconvenient for Klansmen and other unreconstructed die-hards to raid, rape, and pillage such gatherings. As with many of the firearms laws taken for granted today, this prohibition was more about protecting a privileged class of criminal than preventing crime.

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