Can Muslims be good Americans? - Page 2
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 74

Thread: Can Muslims be good Americans?

  1. Art. 11 of the treaty of Tripoli: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

    Benjamin Franklin - believed in god but doubted the divinity of Jesus and from my perspective seemed rather wishy washy in his views:

    "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."

    Oh and he stated himself in his autobiography:

    "For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

    References: Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    George Washington: According to historian Paul F. Boller Jr., Washington practically speaking was a Deist

    References: Boller (1963), George Washington & Religion, pp. 93-100

    John Adams: Adams was educated at Harvard when the influence of deism was growing there, and used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe that God intervened in the affairs of individuals, and, being a Unitarian, his beliefs excluded the divinity of Christ.

    References: John Adams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thomas Jefferson (I love this quote):

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

    And:

    "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

    Jon Jay: Anglican

    James Madison:

    "We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." - James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assembly of Virginia

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

    "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

    James Madison:

    n his early life, he was an orthodox and conventional, though not deeply pious, Presbyterian. From 1777 to 1792, Hamilton appears to have been completely indifferent, and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention. During the French Revolution, he had an "opportunistic religiosity", using Christianity for political ends and insisting that Christianity and Jefferson's democracy were incompatible. After his misfortunes of 1801, Hamilton began to assert the truth of Christianity; he also proposed a Christian Constitutional Society in 1802, to take hold of "some strong feeling of the mind" to elect "fit men" to office, and he wrote of "Christian welfare societies" for the poor. He was not a member of any denomination, but led his family in the Episcopal service the Sunday before the duel. After he was shot, Hamilton requested communion first from Benjamin Moore, the Episcopal Bishop of New York, who initially declined to administer the Sacrament chiefly because he did not wish to sanction the practice of dueling. Hamilton then requested communion from Presbyterian pastor John Mason, who declined on the grounds that Presbyterians did not reserve the Sacrament. After Hamilton spoke of his belief in God's mercy, and of his desire to renounce dueling, Bishop Moore reversed his decision, and administered communion to Hamilton.

    References: Alexander Hamilton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is also a good read: America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine

  2.   
  3. read

    Art. 11 of the treaty of Tripoli: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

    Benjamin Franklin - believed in god but doubted the divinity of Jesus and from my perspective seemed rather wishy washy in his views:

    "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."

    Oh and he stated himself in his autobiography:

    "For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

    References: Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    George Washington: According to historian Paul F. Boller Jr., Washington practically speaking was a Deist

    References: Boller (1963), George Washington & Religion, pp. 93-100

    John Adams: Adams was educated at Harvard when the influence of deism was growing there, and used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe that God intervened in the affairs of individuals, and, being a Unitarian, his beliefs excluded the divinity of Christ.

    References: John Adams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thomas Jefferson (I love this quote):

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

    And:

    "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

    Jon Jay: Anglican

    James Madison:

    "We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." - James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assembly of Virginia

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

    "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

    James Madison:

    n his early life, he was an orthodox and conventional, though not deeply pious, Presbyterian. From 1777 to 1792, Hamilton appears to have been completely indifferent, and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention. During the French Revolution, he had an "opportunistic religiosity", using Christianity for political ends and insisting that Christianity and Jefferson's democracy were incompatible. After his misfortunes of 1801, Hamilton began to assert the truth of Christianity; he also proposed a Christian Constitutional Society in 1802, to take hold of "some strong feeling of the mind" to elect "fit men" to office, and he wrote of "Christian welfare societies" for the poor. He was not a member of any denomination, but led his family in the Episcopal service the Sunday before the duel. After he was shot, Hamilton requested communion first from Benjamin Moore, the Episcopal Bishop of New York, who initially declined to administer the Sacrament chiefly because he did not wish to sanction the practice of dueling. Hamilton then requested communion from Presbyterian pastor John Mason, who declined on the grounds that Presbyterians did not reserve the Sacrament. After Hamilton spoke of his belief in God's mercy, and of his desire to renounce dueling, Bishop Moore reversed his decision, and administered communion to Hamilton.

    References: Alexander Hamilton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is also a good read: America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine

  4. #13
    I don't understand this whole anti-arab thing. they wear sheets just like the KKK only they have enough sense to wrap the headdress instead of having to cut holes in the pillow case. So what's the big deal with ya' awal?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    I challenge you to prove that.
    Trying to but my post with some references is currently being censored.

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    I challenge you to prove that.

    He can't because it is a load of dung.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    He can't because it is a load of dung.
    Oh, I can and I've tried to post some supporting information a few times but the post keeps getting flagged for moderation.

    Fact of the matter is by the OP's reasoning the founding fathers would be incapable of being good Americans.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    I challenge you to prove that.
    Ok, one more try...

    Art. 11 of the treaty of Tripoli: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

    Benjamin Franklin - believed in god but doubted the divinity of Jesus and from my perspective seemed rather wishy washy in his views:

    "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."

    Oh and he stated himself in his autobiography:

    "For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

    References:
    Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin#Virtue.2C_religion.2C_and_person al_beliefs

    George Washington: According to historian Paul F. Boller Jr., Washington practically speaking was a Deist

    References: Boller (1963), George Washington & Religion, pp. 93-100

    John Adams: Adams was educated at Harvard when the influence of deism was growing there, and used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe that God intervened in the affairs of individuals, and, being a Unitarian, his beliefs excluded the divinity of Christ.

    References: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams#Religious_views

    Thomas Jefferson (I love this quote):

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

    And:

    "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

    Jon Jay: Anglican

    James Madison:

    "We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." - James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance to the Assembly of Virginia

    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

    "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

    James Madison:

    n his early life, he was an orthodox and conventional, though not deeply pious, Presbyterian. From 1777 to 1792, Hamilton appears to have been completely indifferent, and made jokes about God at the Constitutional Convention. During the French Revolution, he had an "opportunistic religiosity", using Christianity for political ends and insisting that Christianity and Jefferson's democracy were incompatible. After his misfortunes of 1801, Hamilton began to assert the truth of Christianity; he also proposed a Christian Constitutional Society in 1802, to take hold of "some strong feeling of the mind" to elect "fit men" to office, and he wrote of "Christian welfare societies" for the poor. He was not a member of any denomination, but led his family in the Episcopal service the Sunday before the duel. After he was shot, Hamilton requested communion first from Benjamin Moore, the Episcopal Bishop of New York, who initially declined to administer the Sacrament chiefly because he did not wish to sanction the practice of dueling. Hamilton then requested communion from Presbyterian pastor John Mason, who declined on the grounds that Presbyterians did not reserve the Sacrament. After Hamilton spoke of his belief in God's mercy, and of his desire to renounce dueling, Bishop Moore reversed his decision, and administered communion to Hamilton.

    References: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hamilton#Hamilton.27s_religion

    This is also a good read: America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine

  9. Ok, got it to post without flagging for moderation... edited some links.

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    MA, Away from the liberal loonies...
    Posts
    2,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    If you have to ask that question go look at yourself in a mirror and ask that same question. You act like all Muslim are not from the USA, well I hate to be the one to tell you but some are born in the USA making them US citizens. And since you want to bring religion into it, I ask Can Christians be good Americans?

    Then try to explain why Christians make better Americans then atheists? For the founders of America decided that everyone should have the right to worship whatever region they chose.

    So your question makes you a bad American.
    And that intolerance of someone asking a simple question makes you a bad American. Same Same...

    Some people have opinions and don't feel like they should have to be tolerant of things simply because someone else believes they should be. Freedom of choice and free will. That's what American was founded on as well. So go and be the bad American your way and let the others be bad Americans their way...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  11. Quote Originally Posted by 6shootercarry View Post
    And that intolerance of someone asking a simple question makes you a bad American. Same Same...

    Some people have opinions and don't feel like they should have to be tolerant of things simply because someone else believes they should be. Freedom of choice and free will. That's what American was founded on as well. So go and be the bad American your way and let the others be bad Americans their way...
    Well, see that's the thing. People exercising their freedoms protected by the Constitution seems like something good Americans do... so by your own logic Muslims are good Americans because their exercising their freedom.

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. AP is Reporting Kill Americans...
    By ricbak in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-07-2010, 06:06 PM
  2. Some great advice from alpharubicon
    By festus in forum Survival Related
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-17-2009, 10:12 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2009, 08:45 AM
  4. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-15-2009, 08:03 PM
  5. Good quote by Jeff cooper
    By HK4U in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-25-2008, 03:01 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast