Can Muslims be good Americans? - Page 4
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Thread: Can Muslims be good Americans?

  1. #31
    How quickly we define things through the limits of our own eyes and the convienience of historical reinterpretation. Even sixteenth century Calvinism worked with the local government without trying to overrun it. Many Biblical characters of a positive stature were failures and some were even murderers at times in their lives, but like with anything else, context is the key. It is so easy to lose context. It is so easy to lose context.

    Under Sharia law, even what are presented as theologically vague, harmless Deists, would be an abomination to Islam. Maybe some Muslim groups would have some sympathy in this area, but having this come down to a proverbial throw of the dice instead of a God-given right and government protection is just too scary for me.

    Freedom of religion does assume at least some of what I will cal an atheological tone, and that is not a bad thing. How strong or weak the faiths of the Founding Fathers were is somewhat irrelevant, in that they were able to look past that and create a government with limitations and protections beyond their own mindsets. And it still works!

    Yes, I think it is an accurate statement that Islam is more at odds with the Constitutiion than other faiths and religions. The first amendment of the Constitution is an offense to Islam. One does not need to look far to see that.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by rlkraatz View Post
    HI:
    Muslims had 4 christian people arrested in Dearborn. Because that is a threat against there religion. Is that freedom of religion. I do not think so. It took the Thomas Moore Legal Center in Ann Arbor to get them acquitted from the charges. Is that biased or what. We have to accept there religion but they do not have to accept ours. When they take over this country ladies watch out. Men have several wives. Women will no longer have any freedom.
    I do not have a problem with anyone from any country coming to the US. Learn our language and customs. If anyone does not like it here than please leave the US. We should have a national fund here in the US. If you do not like it here you can get the money for air fare to leave. But you cannot ever return.
    I've read accounts from both sides and though I was not there it seems to me that the "4 Christians" were harassing people at a convention or Muslim gathering. And many Christians criticize David Wood and Nabeel Qureshi group.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    How quickly we define things through the limits of our own eyes and the convienience of historical reinterpretation. Even sixteenth century Calvinism worked with the local government without trying to overrun it. Many Biblical characters of a positive stature were failures and some were even murderers at times in their lives, but like with anything else, context is the key. It is so easy to lose context. It is so easy to lose context.

    Under Sharia law, even what are presented as theologically vague, harmless Deists, would be an abomination to Islam. Maybe some Muslim groups would have some sympathy in this area, but having this come down to a proverbial throw of the dice instead of a God-given right and government protection is just too scary for me.

    Freedom of religion does assume at least some of what I will cal an atheological tone, and that is not a bad thing. How strong or weak the faiths of the Founding Fathers were is somewhat irrelevant, in that they were able to look past that and create a government with limitations and protections beyond their own mindsets. And it still works!

    Yes, I think it is an accurate statement that Islam is more at odds with the Constitutiion than other faiths and religions. The first amendment of the Constitution is an offense to Islam. One does not need to look far to see that.
    There seems to be this idea that Muslims are "invading" the US... what evidence is there of this?

    I don't defend Islam, I don't defend any religion... their all bunk to me. I do defend people's right to practice the religion of their choosing so long as they do not harm or foist their religion on anyone else.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6shootercarry View Post
    And that intolerance of someone asking a simple question makes you a bad American. Same Same...

    Some people have opinions and don't feel like they should have to be tolerant of things simply because someone else believes they should be. Freedom of choice and free will. That's what American was founded on as well. So go and be the bad American your way and let the others be bad Americans their way...
    I never claimed to be a good American, just an AMERICAN. And could care less about what you want to label me as.

    And the question being asked is not a simple one but one of someone looking for intolerant people like themselves. As who answers there own question but someone with an ulterior motive.

  6. #35
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    For some reason you all jumped over the part about Muslims being born here in America making them US citizens. Instead you all are grouping Muslims with foreigners coming into America to live.

    As stated by other posters enjoy your freedom to worship what ever religion you want but when it starts denying my freedoms or the US Constitution then there will be a problem.
    Last edited by Kasper; 12-24-2010 at 07:40 PM. Reason: correction

  7. #36
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    I'm sure there are Muslims that are "good Americans". On the other hand, are you willing to bet your life, or the lives of others that any particular one isn't a member of a radical Muslim sect, intent on blowing up as many "infidels" as possible?

    Profiling works. If the largest threat to any country is green men, wearing purple tennis shoes, then green men wearing purple tennis shoes should be looked at VERY closely... I don't care what their religion, or nationality is.
    Only when our arms are sufficient, without doubt, can we be certain, without doubt, that they will never be employed....... John F. Kennedy
    Life Member NRA Life Member Marine Corps League

  8. #37
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    Thanks for summing up my thoughts and feelings Jay!

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketboy View Post
    There seems to be this idea that Muslims are "invading" the US... what evidence is there of this?

    I don't defend Islam, I don't defend any religion... their all bunk to me. I do defend people's right to practice the religion of their choosing so long as they do not harm or foist their religion on anyone else.
    The beauty of the Constitution is that it allows for the freedoms we have. Some groups and ideologies run contrary to Constituitonal law, including Marxism and Islam. I had a coworker try to tell me that my concerns about Marxism/Socialism in this country are unfounded because there has not been, nor will there be, a physical, tangible working class revolution. I say the most effective revolution is one that happens right under everyone's noses so that people don't realize they have been fooled until it is too late. Hitler took away Germany's right to bear arms in 1933. People should be worried about 2000+ page congressional bills that are not read, regardless of party affilliation. The head of the socialist party in the 1930s said that Americans would never accept socialism unless it was disguised as "liberalism." A Socialist prophecy came true, if I may mix a few beliefs together.

    Yes, there are two sides of the coin to religious freedom. Things I may disagree with are allowed, but so are the things that I do agree with. If others want to enjoy the same freedoms I have, then great. Come on over! But if others want to take away my freedoms because they run contrary to their beliefs and ideologies, then I have a problem with that. The rattlesnake is still a rattlesnake. Hard words, but true words.

    The evidence you seek is in the Islamic practices around the world. Women are still stoned to death and people are still beheaded. Muslims rape non-Muslims in the Sudan, let alone all of the killing. Not all groups fall into the "extreme" category as we put it, but, correct me if I am wrong, few, or no Muslim groups speaks out against these more extreme Muslims. I say this because I believe they have the same fear of physical retaliation as do non-Muslim groups. They are afraid to speak out and have no freedom of speech, even responsible speech.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    The beauty of the Constitution is that it allows for the freedoms we have. Some groups and ideologies run contrary to Constituitonal law, including Marxism and Islam. I had a coworker try to tell me that my concerns about Marxism/Socialism in this country are unfounded because there has not been, nor will there be, a physical, tangible working class revolution. I say the most effective revolution is one that happens right under everyone's noses so that people don't realize they have been fooled until it is too late. Hitler took away Germany's right to bear arms in 1933. People should be worried about 2000+ page congressional bills that are not read, regardless of party affilliation. The head of the socialist party in the 1930s said that Americans would never accept socialism unless it was disguised as "liberalism." A Socialist prophecy came true, if I may mix a few beliefs together.

    Yes, there are two sides of the coin to religious freedom. Things I may disagree with are allowed, but so are the things that I do agree with. If others want to enjoy the same freedoms I have, then great. Come on over! But if others want to take away my freedoms because they run contrary to their beliefs and ideologies, then I have a problem with that. The rattlesnake is still a rattlesnake. Hard words, but true words.

    The evidence you seek is in the Islamic practices around the world. Women are still stoned to death and people are still beheaded. Muslims rape non-Muslims in the Sudan, let alone all of the killing. Not all groups fall into the "extreme" category as we put it, but, correct me if I am wrong, few, or no Muslim groups speaks out against these more extreme Muslims. I say this because I believe they have the same fear of physical retaliation as do non-Muslim groups. They are afraid to speak out and have no freedom of speech, even responsible speech.
    +1 ................
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  11. Well I'm concerned

    I encourage you to read this speech given by Geert Wilders a year or so ago entitled "The take-over of Europe is part of the global fight of Islam for world domination" (Geert Wilders: "The take-over of Europe is part of the global fight of Islam for world domination" - Jihad Watch)

    While the web site is anti-Muslim the facts can certainly be verified. A quote from Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi is very telling, he said, “We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquest. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.”

    Some European's have awakened to the reality that their countries are being taken over by invaders, most are too concerned about political correctness to say anything. I believe they are also afraid of retaliation.

    Call me paranoid if you must but please explain to me why people of a different "faith" would immigrate to nations where their religion and culture is not practiced, where they make no effort to integrate into the culture and insist on implementing their form of law in opposition to established law.

    I think we should all be very concerned.

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