Can Muslims be good Americans? - Page 5
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Thread: Can Muslims be good Americans?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mclureb View Post
    ....please explain to me why people of a different "faith" would immigrate to nations where their religion and culture is not practiced, where they make no effort to integrate into the culture and insist on implementing their form of law in opposition to established law.
    Uh, Pilgrims - 1620?

    And every Western movement of our so-called civilisation on this continent thereafter?

    Ya think?

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  3. #42
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Its almost like the Constitution itself is being destroyed by itself. Then I think about it and I see that it is not the Constitution, but the people using and twisting it in strange ways, just like some will use religion for that purpose, and as a result they bring about the distruction of the document (and its protection) themselves. I am an American and a Christian, but I watch how I use either the Constitution or the Bible to address problems in Society. Both are hard to decipher at times and I may be interpreting things wrongly. Any one can be a good American if they believe in our Constitution and do their best to uphold its principles. I don't believe religion, or lack thereof, makes us good or bad for the country - in the end it is about our Constitution. After all, why do you think there are so many in government trying to get rid of it? They don't want to abide by its guidlines. Just my thoughts.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    Uh, Pilgrims - 1620?

    And every Western movement of our so-called civilisation on this continent thereafter?

    Ya think?
    We usually differ, but on this I agree with you.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    Uh, Pilgrims - 1620?

    And every Western movement of our so-called civilisation on this continent thereafter?

    Ya think?
    At least they had the guts (for the most part), to take it face to face instead of like a thief in the night. The pilgrims came here with the intentions of a life without oppression, they didn't come to oppress the indigenous people (in the long run). The pilgrims didn't come here with the ulterior motive to take over every culture in the world through deceit. Muslims are doing it. Its not the same thing, it's not an accurate comparison.

    I'm sure if you would like to try someone else's "so called civilization", there are those of us here who would buy you a plane ticket. Sound good?
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    At least they had the guts (for the most part), to take it face to face instead of like a thief in the night.

    I'm sure if you would like to try someone else's "so called civilization", there are those of us here who would buy you a plane ticket. Sound good?
    I'll chip in.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  7. #46
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Well, I don't think that I am smart enough to sum up this whole thing into one neat answer, but I do feel that the rest of the world does not like us Americans and never really have. Sometimes, its easy for me to see someone with things I don't have and think to myself that that SOB should not have that, but the truth is I don't know for sure if he got that stuff by honest work or by dishonest deeds. I think the world envy of the U.S. is one that we don't deserve what we have made over a 200+ year history. In some cases they are right, but in most cases they are wrong. As a country, we have pulled our fair share of crap, but what country hasn't? One thing for sure is a historical fact though, and that is that we have done more to help other peoples than we have to hurt or occupy them. What have we got in return? SCORN AND HATE! We do need to protect ourselves from those who wish to use our own Constitution against us to bring us down or change us into what they want us to be. The hard part is trying to see where those things they are doing begin, and where they end.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketboy View Post
    Um, look back at history and see all the wonderfully horrific things people did in god's name, in the name of Christianity. Some people still do.

    Once you reconcile those things then we can talk about the moral superiority of Christians.
    You first, as to the things supposedly done in the name of Christianity, part American Indian here if that is what you are referencing, atrocities were done in the name of greed not religion...

    Crusades??? Go read 'The politically incorrect guide to ISLAM and the crusades" then you can comment on that part of history....

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketboy View Post
    I've read accounts from both sides and though I was not there it seems to me that the "4 Christians" were harassing people at a convention or Muslim gathering. And many Christians criticize David Wood and Nabeel Qureshi group.
    Have a look at the you tube video's they posted, there was no harassment, maybe false arrest, false police report, public streets being closed and used for a private religious festival, but harassment, only to those that were arrested....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    it's not an accurate comparison.
    It's actually a very good analogy, and a complete refutation of mclureb's righteous conclusion in a wholly prejudiced self-asked/answered judgement.

    Sorry you just can't see it with the Christian blinders on.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    The beauty of the Constitution is that it allows for the freedoms we have. Some groups and ideologies run contrary to Constituitonal law, including Marxism and Islam. I had a coworker try to tell me that my concerns about Marxism/Socialism in this country are unfounded because there has not been, nor will there be, a physical, tangible working class revolution. I say the most effective revolution is one that happens right under everyone's noses so that people don't realize they have been fooled until it is too late. Hitler took away Germany's right to bear arms in 1933. People should be worried about 2000+ page congressional bills that are not read, regardless of party affilliation. The head of the socialist party in the 1930s said that Americans would never accept socialism unless it was disguised as "liberalism." A Socialist prophecy came true, if I may mix a few beliefs together.

    Yes, there are two sides of the coin to religious freedom. Things I may disagree with are allowed, but so are the things that I do agree with. If others want to enjoy the same freedoms I have, then great. Come on over! But if others want to take away my freedoms because they run contrary to their beliefs and ideologies, then I have a problem with that. The rattlesnake is still a rattlesnake. Hard words, but true words.

    The evidence you seek is in the Islamic practices around the world. Women are still stoned to death and people are still beheaded. Muslims rape non-Muslims in the Sudan, let alone all of the killing. Not all groups fall into the "extreme" category as we put it, but, correct me if I am wrong, few, or no Muslim groups speaks out against these more extreme Muslims. I say this because I believe they have the same fear of physical retaliation as do non-Muslim groups. They are afraid to speak out and have no freedom of speech, even responsible speech.
    Please give an example of how your (or others) freedoms, in the US, have been infringed upon as a result of Islam, or any other religion you don't agree with.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    You first, as to the things supposedly done in the name of Christianity, part American Indian here if that is what you are referencing, atrocities were done in the name of greed not religion...

    Crusades??? Go read 'The politically incorrect guide to ISLAM and the crusades" then you can comment on that part of history....



    Have a look at the you tube video's they posted, there was no harassment, maybe false arrest, false police report, public streets being closed and used for a private religious festival, but harassment, only to those that were arrested....
    I think your thinking that I'm trying to defend Islam as morally superior to Christianity... Actually, someone (maybe you don't remember) implied, or stated, that Christians were somehow morally superior to non-Christians. Thus my comment about all the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, the Christian god, whatever.

    I was not defending Islam as morally superior to Christianity. I don't defend any religion, their all BS to me (I'm an Atheist). Islam is a particularly horrific religion, but read the Bible and you'll find that Christianity is pretty barbaric as well. However, I understand that not all Christians will do as the Bible says and stone people who work on Sunday. I also understand that their are Muslims that don't believe that the US is satin an should be destroyed. Neither Christianity, nor Islam have anything to offer, in my option, to morality.

    What I do defend is people's right to practice the religion of their choosing, or not. So long as they do not try to force it on others, and it does not cause harm, then I'm a live and let live kinda guy. Now, be clear about what I just said - as long as it does not cause harm - obviously Islam can cause harm, look at the way they treat women. But any ideology can be harmful, even Christianity.

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