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Thread: Open carry in sc

  1. #41
    i'd love to see this an OC state.
    I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
    I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

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  3. #42
    Just to throw another Item in the mix... a person can also open carry in S.C. if they are going to or coming from their hunting or shooting club or an event at one....

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
    If you do that and wind up killing the other person you WILL be arrested for (and most likely convicted of) murder. Once you initiate combat you lose your right to defend yourself. If he is able to shoot and kill you he will be arrested (maybe) on a weapons charge if anything. If he attacks you unprovoked, you draw your weapon and hold it on him and you have to shoot him you might be okay depending on the specifics. But, your scenario, as stated, will put you in the big house, and quite possibly a date with ol' Sparky (or the lethal injection table).

    If you don't wind up shooting them you will be arrested for assault and battery. Kiss your freedom - and your CWP - goodbye at that point.

    We're not LEOs, state constables or superheros. We are just average people who decided to take steps to protect ourselves and our families. Put another way - I carry a weapon to defend myself and my family. Everyone else is on their own.
    It's funny how "if I kill the guy" got into this debate. Who said anything about me killing someone or the other guy killing me? Several of y'all here have escalated this scenario to heights way above what I mentioned.

    Now, maybe I am beyond my powers to hit someone over the head that is Open Carrying in Walmart. But if that person isn't dressed in a Dark Blue uniform, or wearing a badge that is EASY to see, he is breaking the law.

    I will confront them! maybe I will refrain from the headbanging part. Y'all are probably right about that. But the guy will be questioned, as the police are on the way. Cops take too long to get to sites sometimes. You guys need to remember something. That fellow is breaking the law. I don't know he isn't walking into the manager's office to shoot him/her. It doesn't matter. I'm am not being a vigilante by confronting someone that is open carrying a gun in S.C. IT'S AGAINST THE LAW!!!

    In my scenario, he isn't stealing a lamp or candy bar. He is walking around with a weapon in plain site, and does not have a badge. I.E., he is, by definition, a CRIMINAL. AND A DANGEROUS ONE!!

    And don't give me that "he's going hunting" business. If he is open carrying in Walmart, he is illegal. You don't have that right just because you are going/coming to/from hunting. You can only open carry once you are AT your Fishing/hunting site or in your vehicle. That isn't up for debate either. It IS the LAW!

    I guess it boils down to what each of you think your duty as a citizen encompasses. I don't view myself as a vigilante. I would approach the guy in Walmart even if I wasn't armed. I care about OPen Carry, and want it badly here in South Carolina. If someone is doing something criminal, I'm going to do what I can to intervene while the cops are on the way. You handle it the way you want.

    I just hope that if I ever am in need of help that I have someone like me around, instead of a few of you here, that worry more about lawyers and D.A.s than helping someone in need. I guess you wouldn't have interceded in the church shooting either, would you. Ask the family member that lost loved ones, IN A HOUSE OF WORSHIP!!!!, if they would have minded if a "vigilante" approached that maniac before he started shooting.

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    It's funny how "if I kill the guy" got into this debate. Who said anything about me killing someone or the other guy killing me? Several of y'all here have escalated this scenario to heights way above what I mentioned.

    Now, maybe I am beyond my powers to hit someone over the head that is Open Carrying in Walmart. But if that person isn't dressed in a Dark Blue uniform, or wearing a badge that is EASY to see, he is breaking the law.

    I will confront them! maybe I will refrain from the headbanging part. Y'all are probably right about that. But the guy will be questioned, as the police are on the way. Cops take too long to get to sites sometimes. You guys need to remember something. That fellow is breaking the law. I don't know he isn't walking into the manager's office to shoot him/her. It doesn't matter. I'm am not being a vigilante by confronting someone that is open carrying a gun in S.C. IT'S AGAINST THE LAW!!!

    In my scenario, he isn't stealing a lamp or candy bar. He is walking around with a weapon in plain site, and does not have a badge. I.E., he is, by definition, a CRIMINAL. AND A DANGEROUS ONE!!

    And don't give me that "he's going hunting" business. If he is open carrying in Walmart, he is illegal. You don't have that right just because you are going/coming to/from hunting. You can only open carry once you are AT your Fishing/hunting site or in your vehicle. That isn't up for debate either. It IS the LAW!

    I guess it boils down to what each of you think your duty as a citizen encompasses. I don't view myself as a vigilante. I would approach the guy in Walmart even if I wasn't armed. I care about OPen Carry, and want it badly here in South Carolina. If someone is doing something criminal, I'm going to do what I can to intervene while the cops are on the way. You handle it the way you want.

    I just hope that if I ever am in need of help that I have someone like me around, instead of a few of you here, that worry more about lawyers and D.A.s than helping someone in need. I guess you wouldn't have interceded in the church shooting either, would you. Ask the family member that lost loved ones, IN A HOUSE OF WORSHIP!!!!, if they would have minded if a "vigilante" approached that maniac before he started shooting.

    OK - first of all no disrespect intended. I understand you are trying to do the right thing. However, there is an old saying "If you pull your weapon you'd better be ready to use it." By definition, if you draw your weapon you are getting ready to kill - that's what it's for.

    You stated in the post that started this:

    If I see you in WalMart with a gun strapped to your side, I am going to knock you over the head with whatever is lying close around, dial 911, and hold a gun on you until the cops come!
    If you hold a gun on someone you are threatening deadly force. If they make a move toward you, your next logical move is to fire. Assuming you hit them (reasonable assumption) you could kill them. That is murder. If you don't kill them, and even if you miss, that is Attempted Murder. You're putting yourself in a real bad situation.

    Now, if they DRAW the weapon, or it is in their hand when they come in, things change drastically. All bets are off, though my first move is still to get my family to safety (they mean infinitely more to me than anyone else in that store). May not be the most noble sentiment but that is my move.

    Now you state later you would just approach them without hitting them over the head. Nothing wrong with that but you are putting yourself in danger.

    I would recommend you look into the State Constable course. If you complete the appropriate level of this (there are several levels) you have a lot more power than the ordinary citizen, including arrest powers. You can also OC and carry several places that a CWP holder can not.

  6. #45
    "ome!
    If you hold a gun on someone you are threatening deadly force. If they make a move toward you, your next logical move is to fire."

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

    I see what you are saying but I don't think you are right. I'm going to check that out with he authorities. " If a guy pulls a gun on me"....he isn't gonna pull the gun, because I'm gonna have it in my hand. I will disarm him. There will be no shooting.

    And I didn't say anything about having family around either. Again, that is something y'all added to the mix. I am in Walmart by myself and see this guy guy open Carrying a weapon. I understand if you have your family with you. You aren't going to get into a mix with anybody. But am I to understand that if you were there by yourself and saw this, you would turn around and go the other way? You would dial 911 only? Wouldn't you at least follow the guy to see what he was doing?

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    "ome!
    If you hold a gun on someone you are threatening deadly force. If they make a move toward you, your next logical move is to fire."

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX B N M

    I see what you are saying but I don't think you are right. I'm going to check that out with he authorities. " If a guy pulls a gun on me"....he isn't gonna pull the gun, because I'm gonna have it in my hand. I will disarm him. There will be no shooting.
    He may not give that gun up without a fight. Human behavior is hard to predict. Look at it from his perspective - He came in from shooting, hunting, fishing, something (so far as you know). He either forgot to remove the weapon from the holster or put on a cover garment. Now someone basically assaults him (in your first scenario) and/or pulls a gun on him. He's still confused, and confused people do strange things. He thinks he sees an opening, thinks his life is in danger (which it is if you have pointed a gun at him - justified or not) and BANG! Bullets start flying. Add to the mix that if he is open carrying when it is clearly illegal, he ain't too bright to begin with. Idiots are the hardest to predict.

    Also, what happens if one of his buddies is carrying, or someone else around you is? Half the guys I know have CWPs. They misread the situation and now YOU'RE "Staring down the barrel of a .45" (or a 9mm, .40, .357, whatever). Not a view I'm particularly fond of. Plus if someone makes the wrong move you're well on your way to winning the silver medal in a gunfight.

    Also, as I'm sure you know you never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy or kill (gun safety rule #2).

    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    And I didn't say anything about having family around either. Again, that is something y'all added to the mix. I am in Walmart by myself and see this guy guy open Carrying a weapon. I understand if you have your family with you. You aren't going to get into a mix with anybody. But am I to understand that if you were there by yourself and saw this, you would turn around and go the other way? You would dial 911 only? Wouldn't you at least follow the guy to see what he was doing?
    Like I said - that's all I'm going to do, IF the weapon is holstered. I'm not a cop. A CWP does not make you Law Enforcement, a State Constable or any kind of superhero. Honestly it depends on the "vibe" I get. If he's nosing around the sporting goods department looking at fishing rods, I may ignore it. If I see him hanging out in the ladies underwear section drooling or if he's being beligerant, I call 911 and do what they say - they may ask me to keep an eye on him, which I may do if I'm by myself. If I'm with my family my response is no #$%#ing way - I'm clearing my family out. Of course first I will check that there's no badge on his belt (I may still call 911 in the ladies-underwear-section scenario even if I do see a badge). I admit this is a change from doing "absolutely nothing."

    This brings up an interesting question - if an LEO is carrying in the open, does he have to have his badge exposed as well?

    If the gun is in his hands (which you stated it is holstered) then that changes things a little bit. That depends on body language and what "vibe" I get. Is he just returning a faulty gun to the sporting goods counter? The greeter should direct him to customer service for that (or call the manager) but most Walmart door greeters don't exactly have PhDs in Physics either.

    It sounds to me like whoever taught your CWP class is confused about the role of the CWP in law enforcement. Let's clarify that - there isn't one. The CWP is for personal protection only.

    We have strayed WAY off topic here. Good debate though. It sounds like we might be closer in what we would do that we first thought.
    Last edited by SC Tiger; 08-26-2010 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Misread the post I was responding to

  8. #47
    Tiger, thanks so much for not calling me a "wacko".!!! LOL!!

    Hey, you ain't gonna believe this. And I'm not sure I do either. I finally tracked down a cop today when I was out riding my motorcycle. I posed the question to the cop exactly like I did here, and asked if I would be in any trouble for detaining him and calling 911. The cop said I was within legal rights to do so, since I was acting in a "GOOD SAMARITAN" role. Can you believe it?

    I must confess, I got carried away with the" I'm gonna hit him over the head" remark. I wouldn't do that. But holding a gun on him I WOULD do. At least the way I understood what she told me, I would not have been in any trouble. But I hasten to add, she ALSO told me that it would be MUCH better if I just called 911, and let the professionals handle it. LOL!!

    But after what you brought up about the potential legal stuff, I would probably just dial 911, and follow the guy around until the cops arrived. That way, if he did anything crazy, then I could pull my gun. Otherwise, the cops would handle it and I would get a "wacko" locked up for open carry, and get what I wanted to happen without me getting personally involved, other than the 911 call.

    BTW, thanks for calming me down! LOL!

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by GOV5 View Post
    Tiger, thanks so much for not calling me a "wacko".!!! LOL!!

    Hey, you ain't gonna believe this. And I'm not sure I do either. I finally tracked down a cop today when I was out riding my motorcycle. I posed the question to the cop exactly like I did here, and asked if I would be in any trouble for detaining him and calling 911. The cop said I was within legal rights to do so, since I was acting in a "GOOD SAMARITAN" role. Can you believe it?

    I must confess, I got carried away with the" I'm gonna hit him over the head" remark. I wouldn't do that. But holding a gun on him I WOULD do. At least the way I understood what she told me, I would not have been in any trouble. But I hasten to add, she ALSO told me that it would be MUCH better if I just called 911, and let the professionals handle it. LOL!!

    But after what you brought up about the potential legal stuff, I would probably just dial 911, and follow the guy around until the cops arrived. That way, if he did anything crazy, then I could pull my gun. Otherwise, the cops would handle it and I would get a "wacko" locked up for open carry, and get what I wanted to happen without me getting personally involved, other than the 911 call.

    BTW, thanks for calming me down! LOL!
    I figured we'd come to an agreement. To me it comes down to this - are you going to act to just enforce a law or because there is a real danger? If it is just to enforce a law, then let the cops handle it. If it is because you sense a real danger, then use your best judgement. Just realize the potential ramifications and weigh that against the potential benefit. Also realize if the man with the gun is actually looking to do harm, you don't want to spook him.

    I never thought you were a "wacko", you just want to do your part to protect yourself, your family and your community. That's why we go to the trouble of getting our CWPs and carry these things around all the time in the first place.

  10. #49
    Gov 5,

    I'm going to get personal here, and I know it's bad internet and forum proceedure....

    where are you from? I think part of the problem is your up bringing... and I don't mean to be insulting...just that a lot of our thinking has to do with how we were conditioned when growing up.

    I would not do any of the things you've said you would do if I saw someone open carrying in Wallmart or anywhere else.... just because I really don't see it as a threat to me or anyone else. Doesn't matter if it is technically illegal or not.

    I would think that anyone up to no good would not be open carrying..... think about it.

    I've spent my whole life here in S.C. and 30+ years ago out in the country it was not unusual for me to open or concealed carry often... still do when I'm 'back home' down in Edgefield County.

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Gov 5,

    I'm going to get personal here, and I know it's bad internet and forum proceedure....

    where are you from? I think part of the problem is your up bringing... and I don't mean to be insulting...just that a lot of our thinking has to do with how we were conditioned when growing up.

    I would not do any of the things you've said you would do if I saw someone open carrying in Wallmart or anywhere else.... just because I really don't see it as a threat to me or anyone else. Doesn't matter if it is technically illegal or not.

    I would think that anyone up to no good would not be open carrying..... think about it.

    I've spent my whole life here in S.C. and 30+ years ago out in the country it was not unusual for me to open or concealed carry often... still do when I'm 'back home' down in Edgefield County.
    I don't mind answering your questions, and i don't take it as an insult at all. It's a legit point to raise.

    I was born in Monroe, N.C. My father was an Australian Naval Officer in WWII and my Mom worked for the FBI. I was raised in S.C. and graduated from Clemson University. I now live in Mt, Pleasant, S.C. I have also lived in Lexington, KY, Atlanta, GA, and Charlotte, N.C., from where I moved to come to Charleston,SC.

    I was raised under pretty strict discipline. Leaving the cap off the toothpaste tube got you a few slaps with a belt. I was taught manners and etiquette, and how to use them. Failure to do so got you a few slaps with a belt. I was taught that no one was below you, and no one was above you. Failure to understand and execute that philosophy got you a few slaps with a belt. DO YOU NOTICE A PATTERN HERE YET?
    ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    In other words, in my world, there was no grey, just black & white. A rule was a rule, a law was a law. You didn't break them....period! You can imagine how difficult it is for me, and many of my generation, to see what folks get away with nowadays. Of course, there was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SIDE of my generation too, of which I was no part....the hippie generation. From these wierdos came all of the idiotic liberalism we have today. But these folks were not raised as I was raised either. Most of this came from California, and spread from there.

    And I am normally not a "jump into the fray and mix it up" kinda guy. In fact, I have admonished several here for their vigilante ideas and actions. But for some reason, this Costco shooting, and open carry in Walmart thing just set me off. One main reason is that I want Open Carry in this State so bad I can taste it! I don't want anybody screwing it up by thinking they can walk into Walmart with a Gun strapped to their hip for all to see. And going fishing or hunting isn't a valid reason either. That doesn't give you the right to Open Carry in public. It gives you the right to do it at the boat landing, or in the hunting field, but not in Walmart.

    So if I see someone doing that in Walmart, and they don't have on a uniform, or a badge showing, according to the way I was raised, THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW. Therefore, by definition, a lawbreaker is a criminal! Is the best way to handle the situation to call a cop? Most definitely! Can I intervene? Legally, YES! Should I intervene, probably NO! I could get hurt, and someone else around me too.

    But I want the idiot stopped. Because he/she is only furthering the stupid belief, by gun control advocates, that only wackos run around with guns strapped to their hips. And he/she needs a few slaps with a belt!! LOL!!!

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