Right-to-Carry Reform Bill Introduced - Page 4
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Thread: Right-to-Carry Reform Bill Introduced

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDWilliams05 View Post
    I'm hoping for this bill to pass. However, I'm sure this will get hacked away to nothing substantial, while Bill H.3405 will probably pass untouched. But we will see.
    I guess we will...

    Wait a minute. H.3405 already died in the sub-committee two days ago. And H.3292 needs some work before it passes, or it needs to die too. GRGR analysis and recommended amendments will be available Monday.



    ETA: Contacting any legislators at this time who are not on the sub-committee is a waste of time at best and counter productive at worst. Just because someone is an elected official doesn't mean that their input will be helpful. And telling them you want their support for a poorly written bill will confuse them when amendments are offered.

    Sometimes the best thing you can say is nothing at all. This is one of those times. Wait until we know where this bill needs to go.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    I guess we will...

    Wait a minute. H.3405 already died in the sub-committee two days ago. And H.3292 needs some work before it passes, or it needs to die too. GRGR analysis and recommended amendments will be available Monday.
    elected official doesn't mean that their input will be helpful. And telling them you want their support for a poorly written bill will confuse them when amendments are offered.
    Yeah I saw that after you replied to correct me HP. Read up on that bill after I posted this. Thanks for keeping me straight.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    If you read my post in context to the quoted post, you'd know I'm not the one who brought up reciprocity. You're correcting the wrong guy.

    I've read the bill and know exactly what it says, and at least for the most part exactly what's wrong with it. I'm also taking an active part in improving it and getting it passed. Where are you expending your time, energy and money?
    Since you're placing yourself as a "expert" on this bill hp, what are the "exact" changes you are wanting to see?

    I like this bill for the most part. However, I would like to see more "reciprocity" and OC language written into it.

    What else do you see that (in your eyes) is wrong? Please be specific!

    Thanks

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Since you're placing yourself as a "expert" on this bill hp, what are the "exact" changes you are wanting to see?

    I like this bill for the most part. However, I would like to see more "reciprocity" and OC language written into it.

    What else do you see that (in your eyes) is wrong? Please be specific!

    Thanks
    Just for the record, I'm not placing myself as an expert on anything. All I'm doing is offering my opinion and/or correcting mis-information based on info available to the general public at GrassRoots South Carolina - Our Goal: Citizens carrying arms whenever and wherever they choose. .



    Reciprocity. We do not want reciprocity. Reciprocity requires two states to enter into a formal agreement to accept each other's CWP. It is a time consuming process. It also opens the door to agreements being made and rescinded without notice, which can turn a good citizen into a criminal because he "didn't get the memo".

    What we want is recognition. Recognition means that CWP's would be treated like dirvers licenses. If you got one from your home state, you're good to go nationwide. Keep in mind that while SC may recocognize permits from other states, we can't make other states recognize or even reciprocate ours. However, right now there are states that won't recognize ours be cause we won't recognize (reciprocate) theirs. Simply by becoming a recognition state we'd pick up several new states. Recognition is very specifically covered in H.3292;

    This is where I cut and pasted the change. However forum software won't allow the text stike outs so you'll have to check the change to 23-31-215(N) here; 2011-2012 Bill 3292: Handguns - South Carolina Legislature Online



    Open carry. This is more than an open carry bill, this is a Constitutional Carry bill. I don't know of any state with language that specifically states open carry is legal. It's what the bill changes and doesn't say that povides for Constitutional Carry. Remember, laws by their nature take away freedoms, they do not bestow them.

    If you want open carry/Constitutional Carry in South Carolina, this bill with a few changes is what you're looking for. Expect to see the full analysis and recommended amendments by Dr Butler on the GRGR website in the next 36 hours. It was going to be posted today, but since the sub-commitee meeting was postponed one week (till next Thursday) he has a little more time to get it right. Then it'll be time for Action Alerts. Get ready to burn up the e-mail, phone lines and snail mail.


    As for the changes, I'm not an expert and I'm not a liberty to talk about anything that may or may not currently be being discussed. I promise you that I'll let you know as soon as I can.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

  6. #35
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    Thanks for the link hp!

    I agree with the need for recognition. (I personally, really need GA & AL to recognize SC.) But, I not sure that is up to SC.

    Wouldn't legislation have to be passed or ammended in the respective "state" houses for us to get recognition from that particular state; or is out of state permit acceptance done by a commitee vote?

    ETA;
    Thanks again hp. (Nevermind; I clearer on recognition after re-reading your post.)

    I just read your version link. Good Stuff!!!

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Thanks for the link hp!

    I agree with the need for recognition. (I personally, really need GA & AL to recognize SC.) But, I not sure that is up to SC.

    Wouldn't legislation have to be passed or ammended in the respective "state" houses for us to get recognition from that particular state; or is out of state permit acceptance done by a commitee vote?
    I don't know the process in states other then South Carolina. Sometimes I'm not even sure how it works here.

    In South Carolina legislation would have to be passed (such as H.3292) to create a CWP recognition law. I believe it would be the same in other states.

    Last year there was a national right to carry bill introduced which would force all states to recognize all other states permits, although much the same as driving, you'd be bound by their laws. This sounds good on the surface but there is one major downside.

    It would let the fed dictate gun law to the states. I mean more than they already do. But this time we'd have asked for it. How long would it be before it was turned around on us so federal law dictated no large capacity mags for example. Yeah, yeah, I know they're trying that now. But if we say it's okay for a law we like, it must be okay for laws they like to.

    Slippery slope, camel's nose under the tent, yada, yada.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

  8. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    I don't know the process in states other then South Carolina. Sometimes I'm not even sure how it works here.

    In South Carolina legislation would have to be passed (such as H.3292) to create a CWP recognition law. I believe it would be the same in other states.
    My take also. SC would have to modify

    SECTION 23-31-215
    (N) Valid out of state permits to carry concealable weapons held by a resident of a reciprocal state must be honored by this State. SLED shall make a determination as to those states which have permit issuance standards equal to or greater than the standards contained in this article and shall maintain and publish a list of those states as the states with which South Carolina has reciprocity.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    My take also. SC would have to modify

    SECTION 23-31-215
    (N) Valid out of state permits to carry concealable weapons held by a resident of a reciprocal state must be honored by this State. SLED shall make a determination as to those states which have permit issuance standards equal to or greater than the standards contained in this article and shall maintain and publish a list of those states as the states with which South Carolina has reciprocity.
    What? Why?

    The proposed verbiage for 23-31-215(N) already states;

    "Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons must be honored by this State."

    That means that SC will recognize all state's permits whether they recognize ours or not. Your wording would leave visitors to SC in the same place they are now... Potentially unable to carry because their permitting process doesn't meet our "high standards".

    How does this benefit anyone except the lawyer who has to defend the poor schmuck who inadvertently broke the law? Please do explain.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    What? Why?

    The proposed verbiage for 23-31-215(N) already states;

    "Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons must be honored by this State."

    That means that SC will recognize all state's permits whether they recognize ours or not. Your wording would leave visitors to SC in the same place they are now... Potentially unable to carry because their permitting process doesn't meet our "high standards".

    How does this benefit anyone except the lawyer who has to defend the poor schmuck who inadvertently broke the law? Please do explain.
    That's not my wording...that is the law as it is written. My point was they neeed to change the current law to read as you suggested... "Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons must be honored by this State."

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    That's not my wording...that is the law as it is written. My point was they neeed to change the current law to read as you suggested... "Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons must be honored by this State."
    Okay. Good. I thought you were suggesting that.

    The way H.3292 is worded would make it pretty easy for out of staters to carry here. And since we'd be Constitutional Carry, CWP's would only be important in school zones anyway.

    Unfortunately, we can't do anything to make other states recognize us. The one good thing though is that the more states that relax their laws, the more chance that others will follow suit.

    Didn't Wyoming just get a pro-ConCarry bill through their house something like 20-10? Hopefully that'll be us soon.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

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