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Thread: SC car carry

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Manchester State Forest, SC
    Posts
    376
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeH View Post
    So based on that even with a permt you can't pocket or IWB carry in a car?

    Thats what I was worried about. That really sucks.
    I'm sorry that I glanced right over the "info" provided to you by "Jim at Self Defence CWP". I would mention that he's a poor source for info, but I won't need to after you read the rest of this post.

    The citation provided to you is seriously incomplete. Let me give you more info that explains why what you've been told is incorrect. Please pay special attention to the bolded text.

    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
    (1) regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State, uncompensated Governor's constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators;
    (2) members of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Guard, organized reserves, or the State Militia when on duty;
    (3) members, or their invited guests, of organizations authorized by law to purchase or receive firearms from the United States or this State or regularly enrolled members, or their invited guests, of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting or collecting modern and antique firearms while these members, or their invited guests, are at or going to or from their places of target practice or their shows and exhibits;
    (4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;
    (5) a person regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, repossessing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of this person, while possessing, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
    (6) guards authorized by law to possess handguns and engaged in protection of property of the United States or any agency of the United States;
    (7) members of authorized military or civil organizations while parading or when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations;
    (8) a person in his home or upon his real property or a person who has the permission of the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of the home or real property;
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:
    (a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or
    (b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;
    (10) a person carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or fixed place of business or while in the process of changing or moving one's residence or changing or moving one's fixed place of business;
    (11) a prison guard while engaged in his official duties;
    (12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person, under conditions set forth in the permit, and while transferring the handgun between the permittee's person and a location specified in item (9);
    (13) the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of a fixed place of business, while at the fixed place of business, and the employee of a fixed place of business, other than a business subject to Section 16-23-465, while at the place of business; however, the employee may exercise this privilege only after: (a) acquiring a permit pursuant to item (12), and (b) obtaining the permission of the owner or person in legal control or legal possession of the premises;
    (14) a person engaged in firearms-related activities while on the premises of a fixed place of business which conducts, as a regular course of its business, activities related to sale, repair, pawn, firearms training, or use of firearms, unless the premises is posted with a sign limiting possession of firearms to holders of permits issued pursuant to item (12);
    (15) a person while transferring a handgun directly from or to a vehicle and a location specified in this section where one may legally possess the handgun. (16) Any person on a motorcycle when the pistol is secured in a closed saddlebag or other similar closed accessory container attached, whether permanently or temporarily, to the motorcycle.

    S.C. Code of Laws Title 16 Chapter 23 Offenses Involving Weapons - www.scstatehouse.gov-LPITS

    Kinda puts a different complexion on the whole thing doesn't it? It's a good idea in general, and especially when concerning the law, to do your own research. I also recommend that you never trust anyone who only tells you as much as they want you to know, just like happened to you above. The ass you save may be your own.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

  2.   
  3. #22
    16-23-20-(9)-(b)

    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is:

    (b) concealed on or about his person, and he has a valid concealed weapons permit pursuant to the provisions of Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23;
    Actually it was more than a couple of years ago and was basically the unneeded law. There was one Sheriff or agency I think in the upstate (I don't know who or the exact details which doens't really matter) that was trying to charge CWP holders for not keeping the weapons in the "glove box" while in their car. This was in spite of the fact that he had been notified by the AG and at least one judge that his intepretation of the law was incorrect. He kept insisting and threatening as well as making some arrests so the legislature added the above paragraph (b) to make it very clear that it does not have to be in the glove box or console. I think I remember it passing on a voice vote without even a discussion or objection on it fairly early in the legislative session that year.

    Notice it says CONCEALED ON OR ABOUT his PERSON. Now your interpretation of that is as good as mine but I suggest you not try to carry it too far and be reasonable, whatever that it.

  4. #23
    Akk! I didn't see this page until I posted but we are on the same wavelength here Hp-Hobo.

  5. #24
    JoeH's original statement stated that he was a CWP holder.
    If you "carry" in South Carolina, our current law dictates in Section 23-31-210 under Definitions, the following:

    6) "Concealable weapon" means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.
    So your options are simple either "carry on your person", or carry in your vehicle, in accordance with the law.

    Is this UNCLEAR to anyone, or are we attempting to justify our actions/desires?

    I will be brief in my response, and not comment on these negative post, or names and titles of the persons posting them. They speak for themselves. I seldom attempt to teach online. I offer State approved classes on the subject, and many years of actual "experience".

    As I originally stated there is already much mis-understanding among persons and Peace Officers regarding this subject, and as you can see by the responses to this post, apparently much mis-understanding on this subject period. We provide an actual copy of the South Carolina law regarding handguns to all of our attendees, at our expense.

    Personally we do not teach our attendees to violate the law or put them in a position of having a young, inexperienced Peace officer interpret the law on the roadside. This will only aggrevate the situation and result in inconvience to and possible detainment of the CWP holder. I teach all of my attendees to "carry" loaded ON THEIR PERSON at all times. I do not want a loaded handgun laying openly in the automobile, for kids or anyone else to pick up, for any reason. I keep it simple...you either carry on your person OR carry in your automobile, in both cases, in accordance with the law. I promise you if you force that Peace Officer to make a decision regarding a handgun "on or about your person"...you WILL lose!
    There have been many cases in which the CWP holders and hunters have lost this discussion with Peace Officers by attempting "open carry" OR "on and about" carry, telling the Peace Officer I am a hunter, have a current hunting license, and on my way hunting. In most cases it did not work then, and probably will not work now. (Eventho, there IS another mis-understood stipulation for the hunters to this regard.)
    In my opinion, it is always best to make every attempt to obey the law, instead of trying to "manufacture" ways to test the law.
    Having said this, as an adult who has applied for and received your CWP, I congratulate you! I hope that all of the decisions you make will reflect favorably upon all of the CWP holders. If you choose to test the law and the assigned Peace Officers of exactly how they interpret "on or about" on the side of the road, that is your decision.
    In most cases, a Peace Officer will make every attempt to treat you differently as a CWP holder, because you have had a background check. However, he may also understandably hold you to a higher standard.
    Be Safe,
    Jim
    Owner, Self Defense CWP

  6. #25
    Jim, I see nothing at all to argue with in your post. The law is the law no matter what we want to or wish to read into it. The role of the judiciary branch of government is to interpret the law and this is a good example of it. What does "On or about the person" mean and until the SC Supreme Court defines it, we are all, including LEO, just guessing. As for the rookie cop or one wanting to make a name, that was the case and the impetus for paragraph (b) of the law, It doesn't matter how closely you think you are following the law someone can find something to argue about.

    When I woked at the power company one of our line crews has the OSHA man walk up to them around quitting time one afternoon. He said he had been watching them all afternoon change out poles and all other kinds of hazardous work to try to find something to charge them with. He said he finally found it when he noticed that the water cooler didn't have a sticker saying "Drinking water only". They are hoing to find something it they want to even if they have to make it up. Most do not want as they are too busy with real criminals but there is always that one butthole as you described.

  7. #26
    ..FN,
    So true, thanks for clarifying your position. I don't care to argue either, but I also make every attempt possible to offer respectable responses, when requested. Opinions are easy...just not very reliable.
    I believe most SC CWP Instructors, especially the NRA certified Instructors do a pretty good job at teaching the attendees at CWP classes the things we CWP holders can do to keep the Peace Officers calm, and relaxed as possible, while doing our best to obey the law during a traffic stop. I believe we all understand things can go bad quickly if we start debating the gun laws on the roadside during a traffic stop.
    Be Safe,
    Jim
    Owner, Self Defense CWP

  8. #27
    SD, you are so correct about staying calm and not trying to debate law at the roadside. As you say things can go bad in a very big hurry. When teaching the CWP class you have to teach the law and not opinions. If you give your opinion you must make sure that they understand that it is an opinion and may not be correct, just like a part of the body that almost everyone has. The worst thing any instructor can do is provide their opinion without providing the law to go along with it. I think that most instructors do a good job, some better than others. Probably the hardest answer for any instructor to give when asked a question is "I don't know". If you don't know then say that and go from there. Don't make up an answer.

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