Denied purchase in Rock Hill SC - Page 5
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Thread: Denied purchase in Rock Hill SC

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rock Hill, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    13
    Whoa! Time out: What I said was that maybe 10-15 years ago I bought a Targus .357 & a Ruger .22 from a Local Pawnshop with no difficulty whatsoever and all I had to do was show my driver's license and pay for my purchase. The transaction in question concerns a handgun I purchased recently on an online auction. Weapon was shipped to local dealer with FLR for me to pick up and when I did the NICS call was made - I was denied and so here we are. I learned my lesson a long time ago and at 67 years of age I am not interested in doing anything illegal, including buying a gun from someone other than a dealer. In fact, if I did not have so much money invested I'd say to hell with it and actually with this situation as it is, I rue the day I bid on this handgun. I did not know until now that it would be illegal for my son to buy the gun and give it to me and that this constituted a "straw" sale. I still don't see anything wrong with that but the law is the law. The only reason I bought you all into this was that I am looking for help, direction, advice, opinion - call it what you may how to right this wrong and the grief I'm facing. Once again, to make it clear, I'm not looking to do anything illegal or buy a pistol from a individual or anything like that.Thanks again for your help and I hope continued help.

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rock Hill, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by ericnmina View Post
    I had a problem almost 2 years ago when I was going to get my permit to acquire handguns and was denied due to an alleged Psych confinement that never happened. I got the NTN # from the Sheriff and was told by the local sheriff to call the FBI. The number I got for NICS was 1-877-324-6427 and talk to someone there and they might tell you why you were denied, but I am not sure as I found out why from the Sheriff when I talked to them about my denial. They will mail you out a Fingerprint card that you can take to your local Police Dept to get your finger prints done. You send the fingerprint card in with an appeal letter to NICS Section of the FBI. It takes 4-6 months to get the appeal results back and they will state if you are able to purchase the weapon or not. If they come back with an unfavorable you will have to deal with the place you bought it from or the place who is holding it to find out your options. I hope this helps a little.

    Good luck,
    Eric
    Eric, Thanks I called this number and spoke with a NICS agent. Not much help over phone "privacy act" and all that. She suggested I be proactive, have my finger prints rolled and send it along with copy of my Pardon and play the waiting game and you may be right as it could take 90 days. Bummer! Would not even give me the reason for denial but I don't see how it could be anything else. Thanks again, Ron

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Gensemer View Post
    Thanks for your advice, I'll do what you suggest. I see you are from PA. I was raised in Lancaster County. Is that in your neck of the woods? I just baked a couple of Shoo Fly Pies and you may just know what that is :-)
    I assume you mean me. No I'm SW PA. I have heard of such a pie, I believe it was big with the PA Dutch (Lancaster is huge PA Dutch country if I remember right) but thought it was more of a southern thing.

    As far as your denial is concerned persevere and get your state politicians involved. They have helped me on occasions with other matters but they may be able to help you with your particular one
    "Those who would trade liberty for security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
    "The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson".

  5. #44
    Ron,

    Who said you were even in this conversation:):)

    Someone told you to do something that may be illegal and someone else said it may be illegal. This conversation is going on all around you and I don't think anybody thinks you want to do anything illegal.

    OK, that said, Are you sure you want to send the pardon paperwork in when you're not even sure that's what it's all about? It may be something way more benign and you may just open up a can of worms.

    Is the Gun Shop owner on your case to get rid of the gun or will he work with you and hold on to it.

    He may even in fact sell it to your son if there is no intent to give it to you. Maybe you can work that part out.

    I'm usually a proponent for being up front and totally transparant but you giving them a reason that may not even be, I would think about that.

    KK

  6. #45
    I thought this over a bit and have a solution. First you say that the only thing that you have against you is an old case that you have a pardon for. With the NICS system they are way less that perfect and your denial could be for all kinds of reasons including a mistyped SSN or name. If the dealer will hold the gun for you until you get things cleared that is fine but not ideal. Since you bought it online I take it that you have already paid for it.

    To take care of this without breaking any laws get your son, wife, friend etc. to go with you to pick up the gun. When you get there tell the dealer that since you cannot pass the NICS check you have decided to sell the gun to your "friend" and have your friend hand you $150 for the gun right in front of the FFL. The the FFL can issue the gun to your friend. What you two do when you leave the store is your business as well as where the $150 came from.

    Take the $150 and enroll in a CWP class then apply to SLED for a CWP. When you apply disclose your arrest and include a copy of the pardon. If there is nothing else in your past SLED will issue you a CWP. You can then go get your gun from your friend and next time you will not have to worry with the NICS. That is one advantage of having a CWP. If SC changes to a lifetime CWP then we may lose that ability to by-pass the NICS but right now it works. Not only will you not have to worry about NICS you will also be able to concealed carry without worry of being hassled.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Manchester State Forest, SC
    Posts
    376
    Except... Except that as far as the FFL knows he is a prohibited person. A prohibited person cannot legally own a firearm. Since they cannot legally own a firearm, they cannot legally sell a firearm. Handing the money over in front of the FFL would only make him witness to a felony, and also make the "seller" and "buyer" felons.

    I do not like the law. I do not agree with the law. And I feel sorry for anyone who is in this situation. But as I stated in an earlier post, the absolute worst thing he can be doing is discussing this on an open online forum. Well actually the worst thing he could do is take the "advice" of people who have no skin in the game and wouldn't be harmed if he spent some time in prison for taking that advice.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

  8. #47
    That brings up a good point as who does own the gun at this point? Since the gun has not been delivered to Ron at this point wouldn't the original seller still own the gun? If the FFL that received it does not want to hold it he would have to sent it back to the original owner wouldn't he? Can he place it in his inventory where it is currently recorded in his book to be sold? The reason that I said let the dealer see the transfer of money is so that he can see that it is not just being picked up by one person for another and that an actual "sale" had gone through.

    Maybe someone with actual knowledge can chime in but if a gun is sent to a FFL can the FFL deliver it to someone other than the person that it was intended for. When a gun is shipped like this how is it recorded in the book and who's name is placed on the shipping label?

    Say Joe takes his gun into FFL-A to be shipped. FFL-A records the gun in his book as being in his inventory and at that point is the actual owner of the gun. You are simply trusting FFL-A to ship the gun as requested. FFL-A then transfers the gun and ownership of the gun to FFl-B and records it in his book and being transfered. When FFL-B receives the gun he records it in his book and part of his inventory and he becomes the owner of the gun. You are trusting him that when the gun arrives that he will then transfer the gun to you for the $20 transfer fee. At the point that FFL-B gets the gun it is just like any other gun in his store as far as the recording in the books go. You are trusting FFL-B to not allow anyone else pick the gun up but you. When you go in and say that I have decided that I do not want the gun so if you will please allow my buddy to pick up the gun. To show that he is not just picking it up for me he is paying me back what I have already spent on it.

    I have a friend that a fellow called him one day and said that he had "won" a gun on one of Bud's gun auctions but decided that he did not want it. If my friend wanted it just pay him what he had in it and go down to the FFL and pick it up. The fellow then called the FFL and told him to let my friend have the gun.

    Anything wrong with my thoughts on this as I am not an expert on FFL transfer laws.

  9. #48
    Yeah, thats kinda what I was suggesting in my post above. Have someone else buy it but I just don't know if you would have to contact the seller to contact the local FFL or just the local FFL. It would just have to be clear that the OP was not the end reciever.

    KK

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Manchester State Forest, SC
    Posts
    376
    The information below is copied and pasted directly out of the "ATF Federal Firearms Licensee Quick Reference and Best Practices Guide".

    ---------------------------------------------------

    You MAY NOT sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition to any of the following prohibited persons or in the following circumstances:

    1. Straw Purchaser: A “straw purchaser” is a person who is not the “actual buyer” of the firearm; that is, a person who obtains a firearm for another person. Straw purchases are a primary source of firearms used in crime. If you suspect that a transaction is a straw purchase or there are suspicious circumstances surrounding the potential sale such as one person picking out the firearm, handling the firearm, and providing the payment for the firearm while another person completes the Form 4473 you should not sell the firearm. Similarly, if one person attempts to purchase a firearm and NICS denies or delays the attempted purchase, and another person with him or her attempts to buy the same firearm, you should not complete this sale.

    --------------------------------------------------

    I am not an expert on the subject either, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do purchase a lot of guns online and have them shipped to and then transfered through my friendly local pawn shop (FFL). It is my experience that the gun comes from the shipping FFL with documentation such as a bill of sale stating the name of the purchaser. That tells me that the receiving FFL knows who the gun is for beyond a shadow of a doubt. So if anyone else tries to buy the gun, for any reason, in my opinion it would meet the legal definition of a straw purchase. The fact that the buyer has already been denied the transfer would simply be additional confirmation of such.

    There is one work around for this situation, however it has to be put into place before the fact so it doesn't apply here. I hope that he can get this situtation resolved with the denial, or at least can get the gun shipped back to the seller and recover most of his money.
    "I believe we should achieve a national standard on gun control, and that standard should be none whatsoever."

  11. #50
    Yeah, thats pretty clear that there will always be the suspicion that the 'denied' might be the end user even if there was another bill of sale produced by the seller.

    I wonder if it can be just left on consignment?

    Surely, if someone owns a few guns, and for whatever reason becomes inelligible to own guns anymore, he has to have a way to relieve himself of those guns for money without just destroying them. I would think he could take them to a Gunshop and have the dealer sell them for him, that is if he didn't want to have someone other than a dealer sell them.

    Just thinking out loud and trying to save the OP money. Sending a gun back from an auction can be expensive. Most sellers have disclaimers that they are not respoonsible if a sale is denied. That can mean all kinds of things but it all boils down to money.

    KK

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