For this poor guy, SHTF is real and it cost him his life.
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Thread: For this poor guy, SHTF is real and it cost him his life.

  1. #1
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    For this poor guy, SHTF is real and it cost him his life.

    Rancher and dog reportedly shot by illegal immigrant: Robert Krentz, 58, and dog

    Robert Krentz, 58, and his dog were found shot to death March 27 on the Krentz Ranch, not far from Douglas, according to a news release from the Arizona Cattle Grower’s Association.
    The organization is offering a $15,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of individuals involved in his death.
    Police say the shooter is likely to be an illegal immigrant, according to an Associated Press report.
    Krentz had been out on his ATV checking the water line fencing on the 35,000-acre family ranch March 27 when he never came back home.
    Krentz’s brother said they had been communicating by radio earlier in the day and Krentz said “illegal alien” when he encountered someone. The brothers lost radio contact soon after. The ranch is in an area that doubles as smuggling corridor.
    No suspects or motives have been named, but one theory is retaliation. Krentz’s brother recently reported smuggling activity to Border Patrol. Eight illegal immigrants were arrested after authorities found nearly 300 pounds of marijuana on the ranch.
    A dog team tracked footsteps from the murder scene about 20 miles south to the Mexico border.
    Krentz was shot while in his ATV and was speeding from the scene when he lost consciousness. The ATV’s engine and lights were still on when he was found. The ATV also had weapons on it, but they had not been used.
    The Krentz family has ranched its land, about 35 miles northeast of Douglas, since 1907.
    “Rob Krentz was a caretaker – he cared for his family, he cared for the land and he cared for the animals he and his family raised on the Krentz Ranch,” the Arizona Cattle Grower Association’s release said. “These traits have been passed down through the Krentz family from one generation to the next. This is a terrible tragedy and our thoughts and prayers are with his wife Sue and their children.”
    The association also announced a Robert Krentz Memorial Fund set up at Wells Fargo Bank for any donations.
    Krentz was a longtime member of the association and a prominent member of the ranching community.


    Where is the State Run Media on this?
    If we are being invaded from the South and the Feds aren't doing anything, then is it time to lock and load?
    Scary stuff.

  2.   
  3. #2
    Reminds me of the story about the traveler and the snake. This guy bent over backwards to help those who continually use his land to illegally enter the U.S. he helped them because he was a humanitarian. But he should have known that he was probably helping drug and immigrant smugglers, who have no compunctions about killing anyone who got in their way. His generosity killed him and his dog.

    When you pick up the snake, you know it's a snake, and it will bite you first chance it gets. So you don't pick up the snake. And if you're smart, you cut off its head. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Minutemen crank back up. Arizona just passed a state bill authorizing the police and sheriff depts arrest anyone who enters AZ illegally, and to detain anyone who does not have the correct papers. You know good ol' Sheriff Joe will be back on the trail with a new vengeance.
    -= Piece Corps =-

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by golocx4 View Post

    Where is the State Run Media on this?
    If we are being invaded from the South and the Feds aren't doing anything, then is it time to lock and load?
    Scary stuff.
    First off, the media is not 'State Run'.

    Secondly, I saw that story in rotation on CNN & HNN for two days.
    I live in Indiana and it was in the LOCAL very SMALL newspaper twice.

    Third, the guy tried to stop smugglers by himself and not contact police, border patrol, DEA or FBI and letting the proper authorities take care of the job of drug law enforcement...
    If you mess with a drug cartel by yourself, expect bad things to happen...

    Now,
    If you want to take on a drug cartel then it would be a good idea if you had the resources and manpower of the DEA or CIA.
    Since I worked drug cartels and drug Interdiction in central & south America while in the military in the 80's,
    I can tell you it's not an easy job to have or do, and a lone rancher in the middle of no where...

    Cell or Sat phone and GPS coordinates would have been just as effective and he could have done something about the problem from cover.

    Since he decided to get directly involved, he didn't have the training or discipline to watch his back and take care of things correctly... And he paid the price.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel for his family, and it SHOULD NOT have happened...
    I just don't think a lone rancher should try to take on organized smuggling by himself.

    These aren't a bunch of peasants that can't make a living any other way,
    They have weapons, night vision, GPS, Sat Phones, ect.
    And unless you are willing and capable of matching the gear and tactics of these highly organized rings,
    It's better to just call it in and stay out of the apprehension business.
    Let the bad guys think it was just dumb luck the border patrol or DEA found the shipment...

    People wonder why I gear up and practice regularly with tactics more than weapons.
    It's the tactics & training that make the difference.
    Anyone can pull a trigger.
    Knowing where the ambush points are, avoiding or eliminating them, and keeping proper equipment for your self preservation is paramount.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    As for having 'Papers'...
    The last country that required all citizens to carry 'Identification Documents' at all times was Nazi Germany and the USSR...
    I don't live there for a reason...

    As for putting out water for illegals so they don't die a slow, horrible death in the desert...
    Most people moving over the border are simply folks looking for honest work and better lives for their children.
    Drug smugglers with guns are a VERY low minority of the northward migration.

    Personally, I think the water tanks are a VERY good place for motion cameras, 'People Sniffers', seismic sensors to aid the law enforcement folks in their jobs,
    Plus they save lives of women and children that are looking for nothing more than a safer, better life...

    Nothing wrong with apprehending them ALIVE rather than dead since it's not usually the drug smugglers that use the humanitarian tanks...
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Now, lets talk about 'Security'...

    First off, 'Security' is an illusion. It doesn't exist.
    Your chances of the plant being hit by an asteroid and wiping out ALL LIFE are about the same as winning the top prize in any given lottery.

    The chances of being in a MAJOR INJURY car accident are about 1/600.

    The chances of being in a major accident at home are about 1/150.

    You are no more safe at home in a recliner in your 'Bunker' than you are standing naked in the desert or riding to the corner market for cigarettes.


    Secondly, If they can secure the borders of someplace like 'Area 51' for the military to test experimental aircraft at,
    People sniffers, seismic sensors, motion detectors, ect.
    Then there is no reason the same can't be done with the border area.

    It's a question of 'Priorities'...
    The right wing wants more spending on security, but they want to pay for it with 'Tax Cuts' instead of increased taxes.
    It's the same with most of the programs the right wants...
    They want EVERYTHING, and they want it FOR FREE.
    And you have to remember most of the right wing is the more wealthy people in the country, so they could afford a little more with no issues...

    If it's built/done, then SOMEONE has to pay for it!
    Either get off your butt and join the local Sheriff's reserve, Boarder Patrol reserve and donate your time/money/energy to solving the problme,
    Or quit complaining about the 'Lack' of manpower, resources, ect.

  5. #4
    Mr. Krentz, God rest his soul, was living in a very dangerous section of the US and knew that. It doesn't excuse the crime, but special precautions are required even though its a disgrace that they should be. In that situation, sh** happens, and was bound to happen sooner or later. Perhaps with the pressure on the "gubment" (AZ or US or both), there will be some positive resolution, or maybe a new "civilian milita" (like is being suggested for OK) will step in. When the government refuses or neglects to defend its citizens, many are ready to step up and do the job!

  6. #5
    I heard nothing about this guy trying to stop anyone. The only thing I found was stories about a guy who actually tried to help illegals when they crossed his land. Everyone seemed to think he was too nice. So where did it say he was attempting to stop a drug trafficker?

    And if anyone wants to help stop these cucarachas from sneaking into this country, and you have some time to burn, go to Blue Servo and pick a camera or cameras to watch. Put the INS and Border Patrol on speed-dial, grab a cold one, and sit back and watch. This site is actually backed by the Texas Border Sheriff's Coalition, and you can check videos on the site that actually stopped illegals from entering the U.S.
    -= Piece Corps =-

  7. #6
    My sister lives very close to the border in Texas.
    The big issue there with 'Civilian Militia' is...
    1. Trigger happy people with little or no training out there tromping around just looking for a fight...
    Lots and lots of liability issues, law enforcement jurisdiction issues, personal rights issues, ect. to be considered,
    And on top of that, you get the nut-bags that think shooting someone would be 'Neat'...

    2. Sensors, both seismic and visual, can't differentiate between the militia and illegals.
    There have been MANY cases where ICE, Border Patrol, ect. have been sent to someplace a sensor has been tripped just to find the 'Militia' or 'Civilian Patrol' hammering around,
    While having to leave serious areas uncovered to check things out.

    NOW...
    If there were a STATE ORGANIZED or Federal Government organized militia that could provide law enforcement (detain & arrest powers) to the volunteer patrols,

    AND,
    They had information sharing with border patrol so manpower wouldn't be pulled off problem areas when they were out stomping around somewhere...
    That could be workable.
    ----------------------------------------------

    The way it stands, there is no law enforcement or detainment powers granted to the civilian patrols.
    If they detain or try to arrest any illegals, it's a FELONY to do so.

    If any of the illegals were HURT during those civilian patrols, the members of the patrol would be responsible and liable.

    There is not 'Official' way for the civilian patrols to coordinate with the border patrol so at the very least border patrol (Legitimate Law Enforcement) would,
    AT THE VERY LEAST,
    Pulled away from problem areas to check out the sensor trips...

    And at the very worst, the civilian patrols might find themselves in a gunfight with border patrol!
    It HAS already happened, and there still isn't any safeguards in place to keep it from happening again...

    The LAST thing I would want to do is pull an already overworked border patrol off some problem area to investigate my stomping around in the desert and potentially wind up in a shoot out with them!

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What I would suggest is...

    1. If you are in a civilian patrol, make darn sure you have a contact at the local border patrol office!
    Keep them INFORMED of where you are REGULARLY.
    If that means buying a satellite phone & GPS, then so be it,
    But make sure they know who you are and WHERE you are and what you are seeing.

    2. If at all possible, have a law enforcement officer in your patrol.
    Most places, you DO NOT have the power to detain or arrest anyone!
    A law enforcement officer will know the correct procedures for detaining and arresting 'Suspects',
    Will have assets that can get help there faster than you can,
    Will have protection for liability issues in the apprehension of suspects/illegals,
    And this will give you a BIG leg up in training, procedures and legitimacy.

    3. KICK your elected officials until they provide for a civilian patrol!
    Kick them into action or kick them out of office & get someone in there that will do the job!

    4. Do things to make the border areas less desirable to illegals.
    Off road vehicle trails is one idea. With a lot of vehicle traffic you will have MANY more sets of eyes watching the same area, and the increased traffic will make it a less desirable place to cross.

    Notification signs of sensors and patrols,
    With signs of actual patrols (Tire tracks, boot prints, signs of activity) will help.

    One particularly bad place in Texas, a rancher was seen 'Burying' something in several spots,
    Then the signs went up there were 'Detectors' & 'Cameras' in the area.
    The guy didn't bury anything but painted coffee cans, but it was enough to reduce traffic across his land by 80 percent!

    ----------------------------------

    One other thing I would suggest,

    You all differentiate between 'Illegal Immigrants', people just looking for a low wage job somewhere they aren't likely to be gunned down or raped...

    And the current crop of Drug Dealers and gun smugglers that seems to be getting more vicious by the day...

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
    First off, the media is not 'State Run'.
    ...
    Unfortunately, it does appear the 'state' is too often 'media-run'. They appear to openly provide biased coverage (or if they don't approve of someone -- sometimes no reporting) of people and positions as a matter of course.

    The argument about whether or not we get honest and complete coverage of news stories points out how inadequate and inappropriate the media informs us in this country. I've got personal experience and many friends still in this part of AZ, and the situation on our border with Mexico has never been honestly reported. The news stories do, at times, provide justification for insane government policy.

    As for improving the situation on the border; there are many things we could do. It seems that among all the possible choices, our government(s) are always able to choose a useless one.
    People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.--River Tam

  9. #8
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    We've managed to lay almost 50,000 miles of concrete and asphalt criss-crossing the country for the interstate highway system to date. I don't see why another few thousand miles laid up vertically about 20 feet high along the TX-NM-AZ and CA/Mexico border would be so difficult. A few gates needed here and there. Install the detection and monitoring devices as needed. Not hard to do at all.

    Priorities. Politics.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NDS View Post
    Unfortunately, it does appear the 'state' is too often 'media-run'. They appear to openly provide biased coverage (or if they don't approve of someone -- sometimes no reporting) of people and positions as a matter of course.

    The argument about whether or not we get honest and complete coverage of news stories points out how inadequate and inappropriate the media informs us in this country. I've got personal experience and many friends still in this part of AZ, and the situation on our border with Mexico has never been honestly reported. The news stories do, at times, provide justification for insane government policy.

    As for improving the situation on the border; there are many things we could do. It seems that among all the possible choices, our government(s) are always able to choose a useless one.
    I agree, most media is slanted one way or the other... Way too much politics in 'News' reporting.

    That's why I watch PBS and BBC and others to get the stories and slants on things you simply can't get from the main stream, for profit networks.

    I still can't believe FOX calls it's self 'News',
    ABC is so religion slanted information there is useless.

    You just have to shop around, collect the same 'Story' from several different sources, and hope you can piece together what actually happened and what it means without some paid pundit screaming the sky is falling or some religion trying to make it fit religious doctrine.

  11. #10
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    Exclamation Securing the border

    two words...Predator drone
    That will take care of those pesky drug runners. Let's see how they like a little hell-fire with their coke and mary-jane
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

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